Removed cement plaster - now panicking!

[sarahj]

Hi there,

We are just about finishing removing the cement plaster (four inches in parts!) from a three foot thick stone and rubble wall. It was damp for up to three feet up, and the skirting was rotten, and the furniture had begun to mildew. We have been in the cottage for just over two years and had installed a wood burning stove in this room at the same time.

Horror of horrors, it seems that the wall finishes above the floor, and that the wall is built on sandstaone which has now turned to damp sand. in some places the (very old) concrete floor is only an inch thick. Some of the sandstones in the bottom of the wall have disintegrated completely and disappeared with the plaster. Most of the stone for this house and this wall is not sandstaone and has not been affected.

We are on the side of a hill, and digging in the garden has unearthed sa ndstone bedrock, so I think this is what our cottage is built on. We are just belwo a very old mott and bailey castle and this mound that we are on has unnumbered active springs all over the place. Next door has a well.

This cottage was once a one up one down and built as a 170 year old granny annexe onto the big house next door. They have no damp problems. this wall used to be an outside wall onto a yard. The extension was taken across the yard and joined to a 15ft (original) stone retaining wall. I think it will always have had damp but we need to domething about it if the stones are rotting?

And I think this might mean the floor should be raised (although it isn't below ground level at the front or side). What might the CO suggest? I hope it won't be expensive or complicated as we had thought that just repointing/plastering in lime with the possibility of a limecrete floor soetime in the future was all that was required - we replaced the disintegrating plastic guttering and cement pointing when we moved in - but now I'm starting to panic!

Sarah

 

[Mark]

You say that you're on the side of a hill - is this wall built into the hill?

Has the sandstone crumbled all the way through ? How extensive is the damage across the length of the wall? Are you finding that the wall is drying quite quickly now that it is exposed?

I think we need pictures to get a feel for this. Are you listed?

 

[Nemesis]

Don't panic yet - presumably the CO said that removal of all the cement (was it tanking) was OK?

But allow the stone and the wall to dry out. Then you can think about what to do next.

 

[sarahj]

Hi,

This wall isn't into the side of the hill, its in the middle. Of the two walls parallel to it one is the front of the house, and one is the kitchen/diner which is the underground retaining wall. I will take some photos.

Nemesis, yes, I am guilty of removing this plaster without asking permission, (we are listed Grade II gv - because the two beautiful houses either side of us!) but I will confess to this to them tomorrow and take the consequences. It is not tanking plaster or 'damp proof' plaster, just an ordinary builders attempt to put a very thick layer of plaster/concrete along various parts of the wall when the kitchen/diner extension was done in the early eighties (before listing). (This was at the same time as plasterboard was put down one side of the chimney breast to give a squared off finish (covering some lovely ashlar stone). The top three layers of pplaster actually fell off when I removed the wallpaper it was so damp, so I don't think I was doing any harm in taking off the rest - hammer and cold chisel for most of it, hammer drill to break through stubborn areas. This wall isn't ashlar work, its just any old stones, even river stones and bits of brick. It doesn't even look keyed in to the chimney breast wall either!

This poor old cottage was extended and 'renovated' on the cheap, no local builders were used and if I won the lottery tomorrow I'd love to have the extension pulled down and rebuilt more sympathetically. I also think the iron hard extremely thick conctete floor in the kitchen/diner which the extension was built upon is also contributing to pushing the damp at the walls, but I don't how we can get round that without rebuilding the extension?

We removed most of this plaster about eight months ago, including removing about a three inch wide strip of concrete along the edge of the floor against the wall, then we gave up and went back to normal living. This weekend we decided to finish the job. Unfortunately, the damp along the bottom of the wall is as damp today as it was last year, and doesn't seem to be drying out. I am hoping, though, that it won'y be travelling quite so far up the wall as it has been.

As the wall is three feet thick, I haven't tried poking anything through the sand stone base so I don't know how far back into the wall this goes. The damp seems to be along every ground floor wall in the house, with this one and the adjoining alcove partivcularly affected. The front wall damp was alleeviated by repointing (with CO permission) and lowering the outside ground level, as well as replacing derelict plastic guttering with cast iron stuff. Before we moved we paid for a damp survey from one of thoes companies who said that we needed chemical injections and waterproof plaster, but shortly atfer that we discovered this forum!

I shall go now and attempt to do photos.

Sarah

 

[Nemesis]

I doubt our local authority will give a damn... and if anyone kicks up I can provide far worse examples than yours...

In the end, it may take a number of things to sort it out, but it seems to me that removal of the offending stuff is a good first step. I would contact the CO tomorrow though and confess all.

 

[sarahj]

http://www.imagesofengland.org.uk/Details/Default.aspx?id=236154&mode=quick

This is in the same block as ours. (not done by current owner). Note plastic windows and new door do not match description. all done without permission and no action taken by CO/NP (not current CO) when discovered. One of the main reasons this block was listed in the first place! None of the other houses in this row have replaced their windows. Makes you weep.....

 

[Nemesis]

Yes well - the reason why is possibly not the CO but the fact that when action is taken it isn't, in the end, backed by councillors on the enforcement committee.

See Jackson's Shop in Haltwhistle for about the worst example. However, Halthwistle has many a uPVC window in listed buildings too.


http://www.savebritainsheritage.org/casework%20nov%202005.htm


My pics there show before and the end result - but the in between pics are horrific.

 

[sarahj]

I've got the photos but can't upload them because they're too big - how do I make them smaller or ggive access to them? Can't find any instructions, either.

(we are also National Park and have our own CO, but I suppose that doesn't make any difference to the enforcement commitee?)

 

[Nemesis]

Don't know - we are just outside the NP. But I note all manner of nasty things going on round here...

Pics - you need to upload them to Photobucket or something similar, which will allow you to resize. Or post them to Flickr and link to here.

It's not totally straightforward to explain and I need to do some potato planting before it rains!

 

[sarahj]

Thanks Nemeisis - try this: http://s306.photobucket.com/albums/nn263/plumtreebabe/

 

[Penners]

I would contact the CO tomorrow though and confess all.

I agree, but I don't think you have any reason to worry. Since the existing plaster was in such a bad state, you presumably removed it with the intention of doing a like-for-like repair, which is quite acceptable. But now, having discovered the type of plaster and the state of the wall underneath, you're contacting the CO to check on his approval for improving the situation.

I don't think that's breaking the rules.

 

[Nemesis]

There is however a limit really to what you can claim as like for like - it's not an excuse to rebuild!

It's also really wise to check first.

 

[Penners]

There is however a limit really to what you can claim as like for like.

Of course, but if you set out to do a bit of like-for-like replastering, and you come across some hidden nasties, then surely it's perfectly in order to consult the CO at that stage, with impunity.

 

[Nemesis]

While you don't require LBC to do some 'like for like' repairs, in my view it's always best to check with the CO first, in case what you thought was a bit of something not important turns out to be rare and interesting.

http://www.winchester.gov.uk/EnvironmentAndPlanning/Planning/ListedBuildings/ListedBuildingAlterationsAndRepairs/


Also - once you've taken it down the local tip, it's difficult to recreate exactly at times. Many a replacement window, supposedly like for like has turned out to be clunkingly awful and the wrong profile etc etc.

 

[Nemesis]

Anyhow - the pics are there, anyone got any suggestions?