Remove cement render or clad with weatherboard

[mm289]

Afternoon all, haven't spoken to you lovely people for a couple of years, have been enjoying the house after previous bout of renovations!

Anyway, time to enter the fray again so after some opinions

We have a Grade 2 listed 18C farmhouse built in solid brick walls that was badly "renovated" in the '80's prior to listing. This included cement rendering the weather facing wall and cement plastering the interior walls, laying a cement path all the way around the property butting up to the walls, you can guess the rest.......

Anyway a few years back we removed the cement plinth, repaired the wall behind and recovered in lime, which was relatively easy as the render had lost its bond with the disintergrating brickwork. We also put a french drain in to allow water to wick away from the wall. We tried removing some more render higher up the wall but the strength of the cement meant it was not coming off without damaging the soft bricks behind.

Fast forward a few years and we have the funds to have a go at fixing this. The render has cracks in it which are allowing more moisture into the wall so we want to try and stop this continuos ingress. TBH it's not that bad inside damp wise but that may be because the cement plaster is holding it all in the wall :roll:

We have a couple of options....
1. QS and local CO are happy for us to weatherboard over the render as at least this will stop further water ingress and allow the wall a chance to dry
2. A local conservation specialist builder is adamant that this will not improve the situation and that we are better removing the cement render, which they believe will have some effect on the bricks but not disasterous, and re render in lime which will cover the damage anyway. This will allow the wall to genuinely breath and give a chance to dry out properly.

Obviously there is a cost difference, but that aside, any thoughts on options 1 vs 2. TBH anything I do will improve the current situation, its just how much improvement vs cost....

Any thoughts/experiences more than welcome.

Cheers,

MM

 

[MatthewC]

I vote for Option 2. I am quite surprised that the CO is happy with weatherboard, and I doubt that the rendered wall would dry out much without removal of the render. However, the only similar task I had was with "concrete plaster" on the internal bottom 2 or 3 feet of some walls.

 

[Flyfisher]

I'd go for the weatherboarding option. If the render has cracks that are allowing water to enter the wall then the same cracks should allow water to exit as well. With no further possibility of water getting in I'd expect the wall to gradually dry out.

As it happens, I'm not just saying that, I've just finished doing it!



This is a north facing wall that has suffered from various inappropriate paints and also poor condition capping bricks on the top edge of the gable wall. The choice was to laboriously remove the remaining paint, replace the capping bricks and limewash everything or weatherboard and cap the wall with lead to completely protect the wall from the elements. A further complication is that the ground level is higher than the internal floor level because of a paved terrace and it would be a mammoth task to remove or lower the terrace. So, the reason why the wall is only half-weatherboarded is because the lower half is awaiting an oak frame to support a lean-to roof. This will keep the ground outside completely dry and hopefully reduce the damp problem at the base of the wall.

I should just add that our resident lead expert, DJH, was instrumental in providing advice and encouragement regarding the lead work - thanks again Doug!

 

[DJH]

Not a bother FF. I have to say it looks very well. Can't wait to see the finished job...next week maybe! :lol:

Doug

 

[Penners]

I'd also go for weatherboarding, for all the reasons outlined by FF. Matthew is, of course, correct to a degree - the in situ rendering will tend to slow down any drying that the brick wall need to do. However, once protected from the weather, I think it will slowly dry. Cement rendering is usually not completely impervious.

 

[mm289]

Thanks for the feedback.

Weatherboarding is certainly the easiest as we now have planning consent for that and if I go back to rendering i will need to do a new application

Interestingly the costs aren't turing out a lot different at the moment which surprised me. Render is only maybe 20% more than weathboard in softwood, which makes me think the quote for weatherboarding is high!!!

@penners, the current cement render is definitely not impervious as it has a number of cracks in it also the DG windows have been so badly fitted that there are cracks all around so water is ingressing into the wall from the cracks and the windows. Also the interior walls are mainly cement render plastered.

The real imponderable here is, if I stop further water ingress by cladding and progressively re-plaster in lime internally, will this allow the solid walls to eventually dry out - accepting this may take a number of years rather than maybe 18 months if I re-render in lime?

Recognise there is no definitive answer to this - tbh I was pretty convinced on weatherboarding, it was just I had such a strong negative reaction from the one specialist conservation builder I have found in the area it kinda made me step back...... :roll:

decisions, decisions, decisions, - could really do with finding a few more conservation builders in the South East to give opinions!!

Cheers,

MM

 

[Flyfisher]

What was the negative reaction from the one builder about weather boarding?

If you're really worried about the wall drying our more slowly with weather boarding, why not remove most of the cement render before weather boarding?

On a slight tangent, since my last post the oak frame I mentioned is now in place - all I've got to do now is put a roof on it.

 

[Penners]

all I've got to do now is put a roof on it.

"All" is a good word, FF! It's redolent of Mrs P's favourite word, "just" - as in "could we just dismantle that wall and rebuild it further over there?"

As you will have gathered, "we" translates as "you"!

 

[King of the Monkeys]

FF,
I really like the creative solutions to the problems with your house ie cladding & lean to. I have to admit that at first I thought that the cladding wasn't particuarly appropriate, although having read the post again and realised the location of the lean to and it purpose... my mind has been changed.

It uses traditional materials in a sympathetic manner and functionally furfills the requirements of the building. Good solution and thanks for sharing.

Did you make and intall the frame yourself or did you buy it in? Just wondering what the approximate costings were for it as is?

Thanks,Mark

 

[Penners]

at first I thought that the cladding wasn't particuarly appropriate

Black board cladding not appropriate in Suffolk??! :shock:

I have to disagree!

 

[King of the Monkeys]

My whole sentence said " I have to admit that at first I thought that the cladding wasn't particuarly appropriate, although having read the post again and realised the location of the lean to and it purpose... my mind has been changed. "

I ment the partial cladding to the elevation rather than the style, and also cladding rather than the cleaning off of the paint repointing and perhaps limewashing.... both initial impressions which as I said changed on reflection.

 

[Flyfisher]

FF,
I really like the creative solutions to the problems with your house ie cladding & lean to. I have to admit that at first I thought that the cladding wasn't particuarly appropriate, although having read the post again and realised the location of the lean to and it purpose... my mind has been changed.

It uses traditional materials in a sympathetic manner and functionally furfills the requirements of the building. Good solution and thanks for sharing.

Did you make and intall the frame yourself or did you buy it in? Just wondering what the approximate costings were for it as is?

Thanks for the comment. As you noted, there were good functional reasons for the weatherboarding and lean-to roof, plus it was consistent with another section of the house that was just out of shot in my first photo but can be seen in this wider view:



Also, all this work had received Listed Building Consent so our CO and English Heritage must have thought it was suitably sympathetic.

While I can fairly claim credit for the basic idea, I can claim no credit for the design and construction of the oak frame. Mrs FF created an initial model using Google Sketchup so that we could view things from any angle before settling on the basic design and dimensions. We then approached a Suffolk oak framer who coincidentally also uses Sketchup for his designs so we were able to send him our model for exchanging refinements back and forth before finally merging it back with our house model. He then made the frame from green oak and the two of us erected it on site in two days, which was an interesting experience in itself. One-man band, lovely chap, locally sourced oak, bespoke design, total cost a smidgen over £5k and no VAT
I'm not sure about the forum rules on advertising but I'd be happy to give further details on request by PM.

 

[Schoolmarm]

I love that frame!! I need something at mine and that ticks all the boxes.
Had you already laid a floor before contacting the framer?

 

[Flyfisher]

Hello 'marm - good to hear from you again.

I laid a new concrete slab for the frame to stand on. It's not clear from this photo but I left a 3-4 inch gap between the slab and the house walls, which I will fill with gravel in due course. This is partly for breathability reasons (although the roof will be keeping the ground very dry anyway) but mostly to avoid possible issues between the existing walls and the new slab in terms of any ground or wall movement etc.

Actually, there was a good precedent for the new slab, frame and roof as the whole area was once a boiler house for the long-defunct heating system of the house. Unfortunately, it fell victim to neglect and then inevitable decay and was demolished sometime in the 1980s, leaving just a badly cracked and loose concrete base, which I use as the foundation for the new slab. So although the new structure is not an identical replacement, it is very similar in scale and form - the main exception being that there are no solid walls, though that is completely intentional.

 

[Penners]

I love that frame!! I need something at mine and that ticks all the boxes.
Had you already laid a floor before contacting the framer?

Well, hello 'Marm! Welcome home! I hope you haven't just popped your head round the door - do stay and chat!