Refurbishing an Edwardian fireplace

[svenz]

The gas burner is condemmed, and I live in a smoke free area, so I'm trying to decide what to do with this fireplace. I'd like to keep as much of the original features as possible.

I think everything is original here except for the grates/ashtray which was probably added when the gas was done.

What about the floor tiles, any chance they are original?

I've had a few chimney people recommend I install a DEFRA exempt wood burning stove. But it wouldn't exactly be the original look, and would probably mean removing part of the insert. But maybe it's a decent compromise.

What's the best way clean up the cast iron? Remove rust and apply black lead?

 

[fernicarry]

See if a hobbit will fit. That's what I intend to fit in a similar cast iron combination. You'll need to remove the grate obviously but it may be short enough to fit under the hood.

I'm in the process of cleaning my surround with wire wool and then applying Hotspot with a rag and working it into the details with a toothbrush. Its coming up very nicely indeed for the most part but the areas that had noticeable surface rust have ended up with a somewhat different surface appearance. Not something I'm going to worry about this time around.

 

[Michael55]

Please let modern science colour your thoughts: I feel obligated to point out that studies show that wood burners and fireplaces increase the risk of COPD and dying with lung cancer within five years of developing it.

- https://www.lancs.live/news/uk-world-news/dire-warning-over-wood-burning-30529907 - Another US study found people who use their wood burner for more than 30 days a year increase their lung cancer risk 68 per cent / England’s population is still exposed to levels of PM2.5 that the UN’s World Health Organisation (WHO) associates with significant public health risks.
- https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/...isk-trendy-wood-burning-stoves-pollution.html
- https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9454202/
- https://journal.chestnet.org/article/S0012-3692(16)57011-1/fulltext
etc

 

[Maria D]

I'm in a similar dilemma. Don;t currently have an open fire and don't fancy having one partly for the reasons listed above. Any suggestions what can be done with open fires? Electric stoves? Or blocking chimney? The living room is poorly insulated so looking for (healthy) ways to increase warmth.

 

[fernicarry]

England’s population

I'm ok then...

I imagine a lot depends on how efficiently the stove is fired. Good dry fuel burned at a high temperature will produce fewer particulates than damp fuel left to smoulder. Can't control what the neighbours put in theirs however.

Or blocking chimney?

The register/closure plate fitted when you have a liner installed really cuts down on the heat loss up the chimney. Other devices for blocking off the flue are available.

 

[a twig]

Just for some context:

The PM2.5 exposure from living next to a busy road is more hazardous to your health than those generated from a correctly installed and well maintained wood burning stove burning seasoned timber. This is due to the more hazardous materials generated from heavy road use and the long term exposure received from living next to it.

The US has much less stringent requirements about the operation and install of wood fired appliances vs the UK so that should also be considered when reading large cohort studies in the US.

Not saying UK wood burners produce rainbows and cotton candy but the situation is not as bad has headlines from Retch group’s various “news” outlets would have you believe.

 

[svenz]

Please let modern science colour your thoughts: I feel obligated to point out that studies show that wood burners and fireplaces increase the risk of COPD and dying with lung cancer within five years of developing it.

- https://www.lancs.live/news/uk-world-news/dire-warning-over-wood-burning-30529907 - Another US study found people who use their wood burner for more than 30 days a year increase their lung cancer risk 68 per cent / England’s population is still exposed to levels of PM2.5 that the UN’s World Health Organisation (WHO) associates with significant public health risks.
- https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/...isk-trendy-wood-burning-stoves-pollution.html
- https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9454202/
- https://journal.chestnet.org/article/S0012-3692(16)57011-1/fulltext
etc

I've researched this as well. A modern DEFRA approved wood stove has pretty low indoor particulates as it's basically sealed and only burns low moisture fuel. Only when loading fuel do you get PM2.5 spikes. The only study I can find that looks at DEFRA stoves is this one: https://www.airquality.gov.wales/si...g_Stoves_and_Indoor_Air_Pollution_Issue_1.pdf

It measured ~50 ug/m^3 increase, due to opening the door when refueling. To put that in perspective, frying an egg on a gas hob will flood your kitchen with 100-500 ug/m^3, even with an extractor fan. Solution - make sure you're getting good air flow/ventilation in all situations.

Period property chimneys don't like to remain unused. Gas is bad as it introduces a lot of moisture. So far, DEFRA stove seems like the least bad option .

 

[Nsar1]

I've researched this as well. A modern DEFRA approved wood stove has pretty low indoor particulates as it's basically sealed and only burns low moisture fuel. Only when loading fuel do you get PM2.5 spikes. The only study I can find that looks at DEFRA stoves is this one: https://www.airquality.gov.wales/si...g_Stoves_and_Indoor_Air_Pollution_Issue_1.pdf

It measured ~50 ug/m^3 increase, due to opening the door when refueling. To put that in perspective, frying an egg on a gas hob will flood your kitchen with 100-500 ug/m^3, even with an extractor fan. Solution - make sure you're getting good air flow/ventilation in all situations.

Period property chimneys don't like to remain unused. Gas is bad as it introduces a lot of moisture. So far, DEFRA stove seems like the least bad option .

28 years into living in a house with three stoves. If you open the door slowly you just don't get smoke in the room. If you open it like the fridge door, you do. It's a fairly easy choice to make!

 

[Stevers]

Gas is bad as it introduces a lot of moisture.

Pretty sure that combustion of anything derived from a carbon lifeform will produce moisture - that's just chemistry.

As I understand it, flues with enclosed fires (stoves) need to be lined to avoid condensation of water and other products of combustion (tars) in the flue. Open fires being so much less efficient are less prone to this through the flue being warmer. When we have our 'decorative' open fires (burning dry wood), it's always for a whole evening right through to bedtime to ensure the flue is warmed through thoroughly.

The more efficient any stove is, the cooler the flue will be, and the greater the risk of condensation.

 

[svenz]

Pretty sure that combustion of anything derived from a carbon lifeform will produce moisture - that's just chemistry.

As I understand it, flues with enclosed fires (stoves) need to be lined to avoid condensation of water and other products of combustion (tars) in the flue. Open fires being so much less efficient are less prone to this through the flue being warmer. When we have our 'decorative' open fires (burning dry wood), it's always for a whole evening right through to bedtime to ensure the flue is warmed through thoroughly.

The more efficient any stove is, the cooler the flue will be, and the greater the risk of condensation.

It's a little big disingenuous. Burning natural gas produces far more water vapour than wood. That's why it's called a "wet burn" vs the "dry burn" of wood.

Regardless though, as you point out, with a sealed stove/burner and lined flue, most of it will just exit up the chimney. Open gas fireplaces without lined chimneys are the worst possible option - and seeminly common as they were popular in the 90s/00s (mine is like this). They introduce significant moisture to both the indoor property and chimney. The gas safe engineer also discovered that my gas pipe from the meter is not large enough for feeding two gas fireplaces, so they are now condemned.

 

[Stevers]

Open gas fireplaces without lined chimneys are the worst possible option

Being less efficient, open gas fires draw more (warmed) air up the flue to keep it dry - more like an open fire does, but with little or no risk of tar forming.

 

[Nsar1]

It's a little big disingenuous. Burning natural gas produces far more water vapour than wood. That's why it's called a "wet burn" vs the "dry burn" of wood.

Regardless though, as you point out, with a sealed stove/burner and lined flue, most of it will just exit up the chimney. Open gas fireplaces without lined chimneys are the worst possible option - and seeminly common as they were popular in the 90s/00s (mine is like this). They introduce significant moisture to both the indoor property and chimney. The gas safe engineer also discovered that my gas pipe from the meter is not large enough for feeding two gas fireplaces, so they are now condemned.

Gas also eats into the mortar in a chimney which is why you need a liner to avoid fumes escaping into the rooms above.