reed boards as in sulating.

[robgil]

http://www.mikewye.co.uk/reedboardtech.htm

thinking about these for the interior kitchen roof , its a warm roof and will also have perhaps hemp or sheeps wool insulating between the joists.
what do you guys reckon? they say its ok to lime plaster on and is breathable etc etc.
i am even thinking about these as a base for the exterior render although they might not have enough insulating of waterproofing for that.

 

[christianb]

They sound quite interesting, but I'm not sure they're the right thing for a kitchen.

Call me a philistine, but you don't want any vapour being able to pass through to the joists. It's the boundary between joists and slates that you need to be breathable (hence breather felt). Personally, I'd bite the bullet and use a 12mm vapourshield plasterboard - which will also provide mucho fire resistance (important in the kitchen environment). Moreover, it means that you won't have to put on an uber-thick skim to achieve said resistance to fire.

Just a thought.

C.

 

[robgil]

yup you are right of course , totally on the button. i just shy away from the phrase 'plaster board' for some reason. i was thinking lath and plaster but when i had a look at these reed boards i then thought reed board and plaster. i know that they used reed quite a lot in the past instead of laths but wasn't sure about ceilings.
anyone know the regs for kitchen ceilings if it were anything but plaster board?

 

[Stephen]

Don't know about use in a kitchen as such, but I know of several (including Marianne Suhr of BBC Restoration fame) who have successfully used this product with lime plaster and wool insulation.

Stephen

 

[robgil]

i have to admit it does look good for walls and such. perhaps with lime plaster and this stuff a kitchen ceiling may well be too porous , especially a warm roof like mine. so , do i have any other options except plaster board guys?

 

[Stephen]

You could try clayboard and other board materials.

Have a look at Mike Waye's site
http://www.mikewye.co.uk/

and look at Ty-mawr
http://www.lime.org.uk/

Stephen

 

[robgil]

thanks Stephen , i shall have a browse.

 

[Ian Bond]

I'm thinking about using Heraklith for my kitchen and attic ceilings - both directly under stone tiled roofs.

Gervase kindly advised on this a while back - will have a look for his post, it also discusses insulation.

Personally I'd prefer to avoid using gypsum plasterboard in a period property.

 

[Ian Bond]

http://www.periodproperty.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9512&p=108560&hilit=heraklith#p108560

 

[robgil]

that looks like a good option , thanks Ian.

 

[Jon Maine]

I'm thinking about using Heraklith for my kitchen and attic ceilings - both directly under stone tiled roofs.

Gervase kindly advised on this a while back - will have a look for his post, it also discusses insulation.

Personally I'd prefer to avoid using gypsum plasterboard in a period property.

Heraklith is good so is the reed being discussed, if you have a fully vapour permeable structure it should be fine.

As for plasterboard, thats a funny one, new work within a historic structure should be clearly identified to the period it was installed for the historians and archaeologists of the future. Of course you should not rip down lime work and replace with plasterboard but if it is new work then ethically it should not be a problem, that is until you look at the green credentials of plasterboard.........

Apparently the local council waste disposal facilities within the Mendip Area do not all take it now, it has to go to a particular depot.

 

[Ian Bond]

Agree about the environmental credentials of plasterboard - a "special" skip is now provided for it at our local refuse site.

Perhaps there is an argument for making the new easily distinguishable from the old, but it needs careful consideration, especially when carrying out necessary replacements of failed elements. A flat plasterboard ceiling in an otherwise "rough" cottage room would not appeal to me.

Making the life of future historians easier is way down my list of priorities - why deprive them of all the "fun" I've had sorting out the good, bad and ugly work of our predecessors? :wink: :mrgreen:


Ian

 

[JoceAndChris]

Nice argument Ian! I agree.

Here we have original reed ceilings throughout the ground floor (brick vaulting in undercroft), excepting one bedroom which has an 80s plaster board ceiling. It look completely wrong in the context of the cottage, and it's been badly done too. I may have to engineer a spectacular disaster to this ceiling in the future in order to get it replaced with something more sympathetic.

Whatever you do Rob, it needs to retain the slight wobbliness of ancient times I think.

 

[Moo]

retain the slight wobbliness of ancient times I think.

Not always, surely? In houses like Nigel's, or Pford's, they would have gone to considerable trouble (and expense?)to create perfect walls and ceilings. When I've visited grand houses and stately homes the only places with wobbly plaster have been below stairs and up in the attics, where People Who Matter wouldn't see.

 

[robgil]

to be honest guys i dont want to modernise my house , and i would rather use traditional materials to do repair work. plasterboard is easy and cheap and thats why people use it. dont get me wrong , i would love to go easy and cheap but it wouldn't be right for my house.
the future historian thing , they may be slightly confused (but i do date all my work for them to see) but at least future owners wont be shocked when they find their nice old house has been repaired properly with traditional materials and traditional methods. i am still finding fibreboard everywhere and its soul-destroying.

one of my bedrooms has a lath and plaster ceiling , the other has a plaster/fiber board ceiling , the difference between the two? the lath and plaster ceiling looks like it is about to fall down and has probably looked like that for many many years , the other ceiling looks like a cheap botched up bedsit. i can see the boards clearly through whatever it is they have used to cover them with , tape and paint i think it is. :shock:

i know that done properly plaster board looks quite good , giving a nice clean finish and after all most houses use it nowadays for nearly all surfaces. its used for convenience and cost but if you are fixing your own house why bother with convenience , why not do it within keeping?

if i were to remove my thatched roof and replace it with a more convenient , cheap concrete tiled roof , or an even cheaper even more convenient felt shingle or flat roof my co would have a fit and my neighbours would probably never speak to me again.

i gues its a case of personal choice where we see the line between modern and traditional materials in an old house and i think i would rather explore the more traditional materials and methods before making a compromise.

 

[Ian Bond]

My lath and plaster ceilings were condemned by the surveyors and builders due to cracks and bulges, and I did have to remove some small areas of plaster and replace damaged laths.

On the positive side, most of the ceilings were salvagable with the help of stainless steel screws and repair washers. The plastic washers that you can get for fixing wood wool boards are also ideal.

A few coat of limewash and the ceiling looks OK - still aged and undulating but definitely in keeping.


As Moo says, you need to differentiate the rough from the smooth - it would be no good repairing a smooth Regency townhouse using the same finish as my rough terraced cottage of a similar era (or vice-versa).

I'd rather use traditional materials, or good modern equivalents (wood wool board, clayboard etc) where possible to give a durable repair that's compatible with lime plaster. I'm doing nearly all of the work myself, which makes this approach possible / affordable for a humble 2-up-2-down terraced house.

@ JoceAndChris:
You can apply lime or clay plaster to plasterboard if you prime it first, which would perhaps help disguise it and give a more acceptable finish.
http://www.constructionresources.com/products/interiors/claytec_plaster.asp

 

[JoceAndChris]

Well said to robgil and his attitude to repairing his house!

@ JoceAndChris:
You can apply lime or clay plaster to plasterboard if you prime it first, which would perhaps help disguise it and give a more acceptable finish.

Thanks very much, this job is a long way off but it's good to hear there's another solution than jumping up and down in stilettos in the attic!

retain the slight wobbliness of ancient times I think.

Not always, surely? In houses like Nigel's, or Pford's, they would have gone to considerable trouble (and expense?)to create perfect walls and ceilings. When I've visited grand houses and stately homes the only places with wobbly plaster have been below stairs and up in the attics, where People Who Matter wouldn't see.

Absolutely, I made my comment in the (limited) knowledge I have of the history and appearance of robgil's cottage. And I didn't just mean plaster, but also that the glass should be rippled and he should throw away the spirit level and dispense with the concept of all walls, ceilings etc being completely even in their measurements. (nothing being straight and true in an old cottage, as we all know).

But even in the grand houses, the new jars with me. I disliked the experience of visiting the ladies in Soane's museum, it was all ancient , and then suddenly you were in a 2009 loo. I'd rather have had a hole in the ground.

I know I'm exceptional in this regard, so take no notice of me.

 

[Ian Bond]

Repaired and limewashed, including boxed in tie-beam, with lath and plastered soffit. Plaster edges angled where they meet the timber beading, similar to how you finish the plaster at external angles on chimneys.

Just to show what's possible, rather than plasterboarding over everything and making it straight.

it's good to hear there's another solution than jumping up and down in stilettos in the attic!

:lol: Can't say I've tried it myself - it would ruin the floorboards!

I understand what you're saying about the museum Joce, but TMI !!!!

Ian

 

[JoceAndChris]

Wow!!! Did you do that? Looks amazing! Well done. That is a very lovely and in-keeping job. No light fittings on your ceilings either? Or is it just that it's out of the shot?

 

[Ian Bond]

Thanks Joce, yes it was all a DIY job (as is the rest of the house).

When I rewired the house I removed all of the ceiling lights and installed round, 3-pin lamp outlets instead, switched at the doorways. I've got table lamps plugged into the new sockets which are operated by a switch by the door in the usual way. Much better than overhead lighting in these sorts of houses.

In the narrow hallways, stairs and bathrooms where there's no room for tables (or table lamps) I've used electrified versions of gas wall lamps.