Recommendations for casement lock?

[JoceAndChris]

The previous owner decided this was a vulnerable point so made bars for it as he was a metal worker:

We have the bars locked in position most of the time but they can hinge upwards and stow away:

I just can't look at them any more. For years Chris has been saying we'll get them changed when we get the window double glazed, but now we're listed I've at last persuaded him it will be better to keep this little Victorian casement (that came from the attic dormer) and just get a good window lock and some lovely thick curtains, perhaps on dormer rods to maximise light
http://www.jim-lawrence.co.uk/ProductDetail/5294/12mm-Button-Dormer-Rod

So, Chris has asked me to find an antiqued brass locking espagnolette bolt, and after a few web searches I'm really stumped as espagnolettes seem only to be for French doors, not diddy windows. Any ideas gratefully received.

 

[Feltwell]

Most espaglonettes that I've seen could be cut down with a little effort Joce. Are you sure you need an espaglonette though?

I'd be tempted to plant something viciously spiky outside that window, such as pyrocantha - that, in time, would make the window much less attractive to any thieves.

 

[Gareth Hughes]

I'd be tempted to plant something viciously spiky outside that window, such as pyrocantha - that, in time, would make the window much less attractive to any thieves.

Ah, but that would negate the principle purpose of that window, as the serving hatch that the chickens queue up at every breakfast time :?

 

[JoceAndChris]

I'd be tempted to plant something viciously spiky outside that window, such as pyrocantha - that, in time, would make the window much less attractive to any thieves.

Ah, but that would negate the principle purpose of that window, as the serving hatch that the chickens queue up at every breakfast time :?

:lol: Yes, wouldn't want to block my view of the fluffs or the roses

Feltwell - pyrocantha is fantastic for that purpose though, we have it elsewhere. Not really sure whether we need an espagno wotsit or what we need, really, not fitted locks before.

 

[JohnB]

You could train your chickens to guard the window

 

[JoceAndChris]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I love that! That's clearly the solution to the problem.

 

[Lime]

Why not fix the curtains onto the bars so that the whole caboodle lifts up out of the way.
You could cover both sides so that you didn't see the bars at all.

 

[JoceAndChris]

The bars are down and fastened with a lock most of the time. If they were covered in cloth I'd be eating in a curtained room much of the time - unless I fiddled about lifting the bars. I used to have curtains here on a type of moveable washing line arrangement - but they did block light quite a bit which is why I mentioned dormer rods. I really want to end the fiddle with the bars, and the prison style of them, and just have a casement lock if I can find one to fit.

Anyhow, the last burglars just smashed up the French doors and then a bathroom window to get in, making a total mockery of the bars. We have a security company and police monitored alarm now.

 

[worms]

These guys seem to do a good range including a locking variant.

 

[JoceAndChris]

They're really very elegant, can see why Chris is banging on about them. Thanks so much worms, I'll contact them to see if they can make one that's just 18 inches and isn't £250!

So complicated, these window locks. I think if it isn't to be an espagnolette it needs to be attractive bolts to hold the left casement in, then a brass mortice lock top and bottom of the right casement, and then a brass handle to open the window in the middle, or, possibly, could just keep the existing little latch.

 

[88v8]

Had espagnolettes on our conservatory windows (no digital pics). If the two casements overlap like a pair of french doors, then there's no need for a separate lock on the left casement, the espagnolette will lock them both..
It's easy to cut them to length. In fact, I'd deliberately buy them too long and cut exactly to length.
If they're solid brass they'll be expensive. If they're not expensive they're likely to be brass plated, or just rubbish.

The problem I had was finding a set which was narrow enough to fit the stiles, you need to check the width of the locking handle, and the keeps for the sliding bolts.

Mind you, if you thinks Worms' are expensive, check these candidates for the Ugly Bug Ball.
http://www.marston-and-langinger.com/espagnolette-bolt-8271.html

Ivor

 

[JoceAndChris]

:shock: Good grief, I really had no idea locks could be so much. We've never had to fit any. I so agree with you, about quality, I wait to be able to afford to only fit once. Fitting cheap rubbish several times over in your lifetime has no appeal.

Phoned the company worms linked to, arciron, and spoke a very helpful chap who spent about half an hour guiding me through various website links. Once again I'm wanting something that doesn't exist, a diminutive espagnolette for a pair of what are effectively mini French doors. He said that even if I bought the £250 one, and chopped off nearly 2 metres (such a waste!), the handle on it would be so bulky it may catch against the left casement when opening. Plus I think it would look way too chunky on such a small window, those stiles (right word?) are just 5cm. He recommended top and bottom mortice locks, which means I'll be operating 2 locks and having to stand on a step-up to do so A faff-on, and I know I won't bother to open the window any more as I'll never be able to find the stupid little wind out key things or be bothered to go and find the step ladder. But short of keeping it as it is with the prison bars I don't see another option.

I now feel quite furious with the previous owner who altered the original and much better design of this window, an elegant Georgian sash.

 

[worms]

Joce,

I certainly thought the lock and handle would look a bit chunky, but I didn't realise that the window was only 18 inches high!

I've spent my fair share of time behind bars (no, not in that way! :roll and found that after a while I no longer noticed them, but the bars were quite decorative and on the outside of the windows, so we could still open the windows without having to remove the bars.

I think you have found the perfect excuse for a fact-finding trip to the French hardware shops (at this time of year I'd recommend you look around Nice rather than Calais!) since the French do these sort of things so much better than we do. Alternatively change your Google settings so that it thinks you are in France and search the French internet for inspiration.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Bonne idee, bien fait! What a great excuse to be taken back to France, whilst there I need to find out what's happened to my little Parisienne lampshades that I paid a small fortune for in September!
As you say, the French are so good at this kind of thing and doubtless invented the espagnolette.

I guessed at 18 inches - sorry - it's actually 29 so not quite as little but still on the small side.

Thanks so much for your idea worms.

 

[Moo]

This is probably a silly question, Joce, but have you considered reinstating the sash window?

 

[JoceAndChris]

It's funny you should mention that Moo, as I've just been chatting with our Gareth about that. It could be a nice idea, we'd be gaining a double glazed window ( probably) that works conventionally. The Rayburn's in that room so it makes sense to trap the heat a bit. I'd lose a window that's part of the house's history, I'd need LBC, but, it might be nice to put back the original idea of a sash there.

Chris would be happy, I think, as double glazing that one was always his scheme.

Oh, round and round we go with these decisions!

 

[88v8]

The stiles on my windows were a lot less than 2" wide, and, yes, the handle did just foul the left-hand stile which I had to relieve slightly so as to clear.
Here's a pic I had to crop so as to show any detail, hence it's a bit fuzzy. As you can just about see, the right-hand stile that carries the lock is approx 1¼" wide. The stiles were rebated, hence the very narrow face of the second closing leaf.
Unfortunately when we moved, I threw away all the receipts relating to the 1990 conservatory build, but I have a vague idea the lock came from Comyn Ching. They're still around, although their website is pants, might be worth ringing them.
http://www.comynching.com/

I'm sure a suitable lock is out there, you only need to persist, then pay up

Ivor

 

[JoceAndChris]

That looks very elegant, thanks for the piccy. The espagnolette sits really nicely there.

Couldn't get that website to work at all on my iPhone - quite a few old websites don't seem to work on this device. But thanks, will check that out when I can.

It's one of those decisions I think we ought to put off making, much as I hate and detest living behind bars. When the Leeds house gets sold, then the render can come off, and we'll see whether there were two other windows there in those openings. Then a decision could be made about having 3 windows in the breakfast room. If an espagnolette could have been found for under £100 then I'd have bought one but to spend hundreds on hardware on a window you might want to change is nonsensical.

Thanks for all the help.

 

[MdB]

Couldn't get that website to work at all on my iPhone - quite a few old websites don't seem to work on this device. But thanks, will check that out when I can.

It is a flash based site so it won't work on iPhone iPad etc.