Really frustrated at rubbish inspection report

[Clarert]

Hi
I really have struggled to find anyone to come out to my little cottage and conduct an inspection on three areas of damp in my lounge.
The house was built in the 1700s, timber framed and alas has a concrete floor in the lounge. I rent this property out, and when some tenants moved out 2 years ago i noticed a damp patch on the wall where they had had their sofa and two other areas where peices of furniture had stood. I assumed condensation as it didnt look as if the windows had been opened in a long time. The last lot of tenants have moved out and the patch behind the sofa (internal wall between kitchen and lounge) has grown dramatically in size. The other two patches look the same (one external wall, one internal between bathroom and lounge). I took up the carpet and the underlay was sodden in a balloon shape stretching out from the kitchen door (next to the wall with the large damp patch), the carpet was dry as was the floor. I put plastic over the lounge concrete floor and taped it there and the next time i visited there was no damp on it at all. I concluded that there mustve been some plumbing or kitchen disaster that was unreported to me causing the underlay to act like a sponge and be sodden. Plumbing checked, all OK, no underfloor pipes in the lounge or kitchen at all.
The one and only company i found to come out to inspect the damp and sent me their report and state 'rising damp' to all external and internal walls, and suggest a chemical DPC to the external lounge wall and the opposite internal wall, nowhere else. The recommend replacing the plaster up to 300mm on most walls in the lounge, part of dining room, bathroom.
Oddly they make no note of what the large damp patch behind the sofa is caused by and also state the building is 'mainly of traditional brick construction'....i wouldve thought the exposed beams may have given the game away on that one!
Now i dont know what to do. After removing the damp underlay and the carpet and letting the place air for a week i noticed the large damp patch behind the sofa had started to 'dry' back at the top by about 2cm. I have a new tenant moving in shortly who is aware of the damp patches.
Any advise on what to do, i maintain the larger patch is condensation either caused by living habits, air getting trapped in combination with the kitchen plumbing disaster which the underlay soaked up.
Not sure what the other two patches are and what can be done about them.
HAve no faith in the inspection report whatsoever. And no other damp specialist is interested in coming out to inspect.
Help!

 

[MatthewC]

Hi Clarert, and welcome.

Congratulations firstly on owning an old property, secondly for finding this forum and thirdly for knowing that the inspection report is more useless than a chocolate teapot (at least one can eat the teapot!).

The standard damp cure is found often on this forum and I sense that you already have this understanding as you mention ventilation: the cure is essentially that you must fix the cause of a problem not the symptom. So check the roof, flashing, gutters, downpipes, drains and any other sources of water ingress or leak (e.g. plumbing), plus check that external ground levels are a good six inches below the internal floors. What type are the other floors in your house, and do they have any damp issues that you are aware of?

The trouble with the ventilation question is that your house is rented and I would not necessarily expect tenants to be good custodians; you need somehow to make sure that there is more ventilation but I'd need to have more details to answer how. The other point is that houses take ages to dry out - you have seen a small improvement in about a week and I would say that is good; I started drying out my house exactly three years ago today and it took five months to get rid of the residual water in the walls, and a further 15 months before I reckoned the internal woodwork was actually bone dry.

If you're close to Oxford/Buckingham/Northants I'll come and have a look at what you've got (when I'm fit), based on my experience of three churches and one house (all listed).

HTH
Matthew

 

[JohnB]

I've had experience of damp treatment "experts" on a 1950s brick bungalow. They were recommended by a surveyor who found a non existent damp problem. I will never ever let one anywhere near any house I have any connection with ever again! Especially an old one!

 

[Zebra]

That survey sounds like the recommendations of several "damp experts" who came and surveyed my house, of a similar age. I am very glad I didn't follow their recommendations and have an injected dpc. Many damp companies recommend a certain course of action because it is what they do, and it is effective, for a while, but is done without any regard for the long-term consequences to the house. Many people on here, lovers of old houses as we are, are not big fans of injected dpcs. Just search for "injected dpc" on here and you'll find plenty of invective.
So, the soggy underlay you think you have accounted for by spillage, so if it does not reoccur, then it doesn't sound like it's worth worrying about. The damp patches you say are all behind furniture, so it makes sense that they are caused by condensation, as those areas are not getting enough air flow. Therefore it would be damaging your house for nothing, not to mention a waste of money, to have an injected dpc, because that wouldn't cure condensation anyway. Warm moist air will condensate on cold walls, dpc or no, and if there is not enough ventilation to remove that moisture, it will stay as a damp patch.
As for what to do, although you have no control over your tenants and their lifestyle, asking them to be mindful of the need for good ventilation, and asking them to keep their furniture away from the walls would seem to be the way to go.

 

[JohnB]

The room I'm currently stripping up to two inches of cement off inside had damp patches, but I don't see how water could actually get through that much cement, so I assume it was caused by condensation. However, the stone walls behind the cement were also damp in those places. Would I be right in thinking that the damp in the wall would make the wall colder, and that would help to cause condensation on the inside at that point? Or am I talking rubbish?

If tenants can't be relied on to ventilate properly, would it help to fit a system like this, if there's a suitable unused fireplace? It was suggested by a friend who designs renovations to near PassivHaus standards, and is designed for retro fits. I've only had a quick look at the web site so far, so it would need investigation.

 

[88v8]

If tenants can't be relied on to ventilate properly, would it help to fit a system like this, if there's a suitable unused fireplace? It was suggested by a friend who designs renovations to near PassivHaus standards, and is designed for retro fits. I've only had a quick look at the web site so far, so it would need investigation.

Personally, I wouldn't have tenants in a Period Property, but anyway...

This product looks interesting, and better than no ventilation at all.
However, given that the room inlet and outlet are within a few feet of each other, not sure it would help with removing damp from the room in terms of airflow around the perimeter. Surely one would end up with a closed loop of air going up and down the chimney....
Perhaps I'm missing something.
And looking at the Performance document, they don't say how the heat recovery performance was measured, but a '90%+ efficient' heat exchanger doesn't exist.

Ivor

 

[LadyArowana]

My first thought on reading the title was "why would anyone have their rubbish inspected?" I was quite disappointed when I clicked and read. I was expecting an essay on the finer points of re-cycling. Maybe it's just me though :lol:

 

[Matt Green]

And no other damp specialist is interested in coming out to inspect.

There are those that will. You will have to pay them for their independent advice though as they will have a different business model than the commissioned salesman that you recently spoke with.

Matt.

 

[Clarert]

Hi.
Thanks for the insights. My cottage is in South Cambs, so sadly not close to you Matthew otherwise I would've gladly taken you up on your kind offer to have a look at it.
I am reassured I am doing the right thing by not having the dpc!
The ground level outside is only a few inches lower than the floor level (inherited concrete floors) so this is something I could look in to which may help with the damp.
I don't enjoy having tenants in my period property, but have no choice at the moment, I bought the house when I was 25 and single, moved abroad for 10 years, during which time I let it as a holiday cottage which was ideal as it meant I had access to it when I wanted throughout the year booking weeks off to stay in. I returned from abroad having acquired a husband, two young children and three dogs and sadly the house was not big enough for us, so we shuffled off to Norfolk and bought a second period home (Georgian farmhouse, a bit newer). I didn't want to sell my little cottage because I love it, but we needed a regular income so had to have tenants for now until my children get older and I can return to work.
My plan is to write to my new tenant outlining the 'quirks' of living in an older home, asking for regular ventilation and to keep furniture away from walls. I am sure she doesn't really want to live in a damp home so hopefully she will comply. I have also arranged to get a more powerful extractor fan for the kitchen, and one for the bathroom that automatically switches on when moisture levels get to a certain amount.
Would it be worth getting the plaster removed and new plaster put on, or am I best to wait and see if it will dry out since the sodden underlay is now gone?
The skirting boards are all in tact not rotten, and the beams are all solid too.

 

[skier-hughes]

If the plaster is gypsum and should be lime then yes, remove all plaster and have it all done properly in lime - expensive, but worth it for longevity.
Otherwise, no point in removing it, lime is deigned to allow moisture to pass through, so it gets damp and driesout What you need to ensure, as has been said, it has the ability to dry out.

 

[Keithj]

I agree with all said above. We spent a lot of money restoring a Tudor timber-framed house (we'd downsized, so had the cash available). Ours had the same problems - concrete used in all sorts of places where it never should have been, then an injected DPC to try to cure the problems caused by the concrete (it failed, needless to say).
You're doing the right things!

We were very fortunate in being introduced to a surveyor who knew about old buildings. He even slated the silliness of the injected DPC. His advice was spot on, and he found all but one of the problems that surfaced as we had the house repaired. There are capable surveyors out there!

I agree that renting out a period property is a risk. If you're lucky, you'll get someone who appreciates it and knows how to care for it. We let out the cottage that was our weekend bolt-hole in times past - the tenant didn't have a clue, and did some serious damage. We've now had it repaired and the new tenant is excellent. Luck plays a part!

 

[Clarert]

It really is difficult to manage when it is rented, I am hoping the new tenant will be more clued up than the last lot, I know she rented in the nearby village for 6 years in a period home so fingers crossed!