Re: Damp in 9 inch brick wall *LINK* *PIC*

[Anonymous]

1st I agree with the votes against the use of DPCs, because rising damp can not exist in masonry.

2nd I recommend to forget everything about common insulation, because about 99% of the thermal transports through materials will work by IR Radiation, and this can not be stopped by common insulation material. My experiments and the table figures the rising temperatur under a 4 cm insulation material after 10 min radiation of a redlight lamp.

Look to the link to get further informations.



Rising Damp can not exist

 

[Anonymous]

Konrad,

Please give me a definitive answer to how Rising Damp can't exist in a masonry wall as you have suggested.

You state that damp can't pass from course mortar to fine stone. It doesn't have to, as damp can pass quite freeley through the mortar joints, which form a continous pathway.

There is plently of documented evidence available in THIS COUNTRY to confirm this.

PC

 

[Anonymous]

It's something I've raised in a post below - however, I think we are all agreed that not all damp diagnosed as rising actually is! It is happeing in other ways, or is simply a result of the inept being allowed to operate a damp meter and a company without any checks.

You are not counted amongst them PC!

 

[Anonymous]

Evelyn,

I am in total agreement with your comments and fully agree that a lot of dampness is wrongly diagnosed. I see that every day.

But is does exist, although Konrad thinks not!

PC

 

[Anonymous]

mineralwolle: mineral wool
polystyrol: polystyrene
schaumglas: ?
vollziegel: solid brick
holzwichfaser: wood
gipskarton: I think probably plasterboard
vollholz fichte: solid spruce

NT

 

[Anonymous]

PC
You have to consider the amount of water transport by vapour damp diffusion and in fluently 'structure' by capillarity, too. It is 1 to 1000, that is true. All reports, which neglect the reality of physics are worth not a dime. Also in your country;-)

Please have a look on my below given web side, I cleared the translation so la la.

Sorry for my not so perfect english, I only once have been some days in scotland and my school studies are so far away ...



Rising Damp - what is real?

 

[Anonymous]

schaumglas - foamglass
weichholzfaser - wood fibre board
vollholz fichte - solid pinewood

A better declaration of the figure I will update tomorrow 21.11.05 until 9 a.m.


The Rising Damp - a Hoax?

 

[Anonymous]

Konrad,

Please explain how salts get into masonry as they can only move in solution.

PC

 

[Anonymous]

Konrad,

Go read some of the BRE research over the past 70 years - they are engineers/scientists at BRE, not numskies!! Give them some credit!

I also suggest you go do a search of Australian and Italian works on rising damp.

Yup, I note you have discovered what has previously been discovered - water does not move readily through non-carbonated sand/cement renders. Always a BIG problem when looking at moisture movement through building materials under lab conditions.

B

 

[Anonymous]

Bobby
I can read a lot and I did it. The mysterious rising damp will in spite of this not exist in the common accepted way. I work since 20 years in repairing old buildings, most of them had been damp at foundation and elsewhere. They had been dehumidified without DPC by simple means. That is my experience and my arguments against rising damp do prove that.

The not or good carbonated mortars will not influence the porous capillar system so much and even the building research in the Netherlands proved it by building brickwork walls outside in swampy outside over ten years - no rising damp at all.

I prefer not to trust so much in expert papers, but looking to the reality.



What to do with damp foundations

 

[Anonymous]

You are right, salt comes in in watery solution. And there are many sources as I mentioned on my webside. An example you will see on the painting.

But there is no rising of salts by rising damp over some centimeters in brickwork and not much over the first joint, try it out by yourself if you will not believe.



The sources of salt in walls

 

[Anonymous]

Supplement:

If you consider the reality of vertical joints in masonry - which amount they have compared with the horizontal joints and in which amount they may be filled with mortar, it will be not probably, that a huge amount of damp can rise through. Despite of the problem, that historic mortars are not able to transport much water by capillarity so high.

The picture is from Hamburg harbour, only the tide zone of the brick wall is moistured up with salty water. Look by yourself water walls - it must be the same on your wonderful island.



Case studies of 'rising damp'

 

[Anonymous]

"But there is no rising of salts by rising damp over some centimeters in brickwork and not much over the first joint, try it out by yourself if you will not believe. "

I believe you. but you are mixing terms in a very confusing way.

Rising damp: moisture rising through walls SOLEY as a result of a high water table and capillary action. Might possibly exist, but is so rare that it's misidentified 99.9% of time.

as compared with:

Damp rising in walls (as a result of but not limited to penetrating damp from high ground levels). Water does rise in walls if there is NO OTHER way for it to evaporate from it's surface.

...and before you post yet another irritating link to that web site:

The experments shown on that site deal only with water at standard pressure. Backing soil against the wall and plastering with an impervious render will result in water moving up the wall to the point at which the evaporation rate is in equilibrium with the water uptake rate. This is because there is increased pressure on the water entering the wall, something which none of the studies cited on your site take into account.

Funnily enough, this is what you see in buildings all the time. The preferred solution is to change the pressure on the wall by the construction of a french drain or permanent reduction of ground levels to a point where they resemble the experimental set up shown by your pictures: i.e: standard pressure.

This situation can be shown by taking a column of masonry samples from points above internal floor height and comparing them to external ground level (samples removed with a hammer drill). Using British Standard Oven dry moisture content analysis, free water content (MC) can be differentiated from hygroscopic moisture content (hMC)- caused by salt contamination, usually.

Example 1:

1894 brick Cottage, Solihull:

Height (mm) MC(%) hMC(%)
250 6.5 0.59
500 4.6 0.68
750 1.8 3.13
1000 1.2 6.40
1500 0.7 0.94
2000 0.0 0.62

External ground level was 100mm higher than internal solid floor level. Results show water rising in the wall which is not due to rising damp. PC's mobilised hygroscopic salts can be seen at 1m height behind the internal cement render.

-----

What you are saying is more or less correct- you are, however, over-extrapolating your results to arrive at conclusions that do not take into account all variables found in buildings.

Thanks for reading ladies and gents.

Matt Green

 

[Anonymous]

Matt - I'd love to believe you - but could you put it into a sonnet?

Let's not shoot the messenger here though - clearly we all appreciate the fact that there are problems with the current attitudes to damp, insulation and period buildings, rather too much intervention and overregulation possibly, much money wasted on 'specialists' who are not... and this is all good debate...

 

[Anonymous]

Am I wrong to side with valiant PC
Recumbent in ignorant bliss
Faith with hygroscopic analysis
Highlighting variation from S.T.P.
Does damp doth in masonry?
Where it mark’eth and stain thy plaster
Will venting dissipate it faster?
And set free water forth free

Does the German describe rising damp
Or merely damp that rises
‘tis an important distinction

He is certainly in the prevailing camp
That silicon despises
For that he deserves distinction

Matt Green

 

[Anonymous]

Does damp rise in masonry?
Where it mark’eth and stain thy plaster
Will venting dissipate it faster?
And set free water forth free

Am I wrong to side with valiant PC
Recumbent in ignorant bliss
Faith with hygroscopic analysis
Highlighting variation from S.T.P.

Does the German describe rising damp
Or merely damp that rises
‘tis an important distinction

He is certainly in the prevailing camp
That silicon despises
For that he deserves distinction

Matt Green

 

[Anonymous]

Poet Laureate status awaiteth thee pronto...

How about a sestina?

 

[Anonymous]

Matt,

You've missed your true vocation

Regards

PC

 

[Anonymous]

Konrad,

You quote...........I prefer not to trust so much in expert papers, but looking to the reality.

If this is the case why should we accept what you are telling us, after all I assume that is the reason you are posting to this site....As an expert!

Or have I got that wrong.

How do you over come dampness?

Have you a magical cure?

PC

 

[Anonymous]

Dear Matt [or better Respectable reborn Shakespeare ;-) ],

I nearly got convinced with your improved termination.

But please teach us

- why should the damp take the rising tour under 'your' conditions and will not sink deeper in the ground?

- why will the damp not rise (besides the tides) in Hamburg so nearest the much of pressing water (see pic) ? Is there an other, more strong and climby sort of damp in merry old England?



German damp will not rise at all!