ramblings on heating and my local CO

[shobo]

Hi,

1600s stone cottage with 1800s mods grade II listed.

I've been contemplating installing central heating (currently electric). I'm getting to the view that I shouldn't, because there is no way of avoiding having lots of surface pipes. They might be boxinable, but even that could be ugly. Its not a big deal, as I estimate my total energy costs with electric heating are not vastly higher than they would be with central heating (given it has to be oil).

Anyway, news is my local council have got rid entirely of staff involved in conservation or listed buildings. Sure enough, no-one answers the phone that I used to call to speak to a CO. I just get directed to 'planning' and they never have anyone to talk to. It seems as if, if I want to apply for LBC, I have to fill out the standard online planning forms, which will somewhere have a box for 'is the building listed' and I am supposed to know the information that will be required and there is no-one to give advice. Word is, it takes between 6 and 12 months to get a reply. Apparently the process of LBC has been 'contracted-out' and it is not possible to talk to anyone, however is that going to work.

Can anyone guess which council this is ?

In my particular case, I can guess I need to supply drawings etc of the oil tank and flue. But, do I need to add drawings of the pipes going into the building ? Do I need to give drawings of each new pipe on the wall, and of the radiators ? If so that is a big thing. According to some local 'expert', I do. But I need someone to talk it through. I shall probably not proceed if I need to provide that data. It would need an architect alongside a plumber.

There are other jobs I am contemplating which will need to be dropped if the council are providing zero help.

 

[a twig]

Alternatively if there's no CO, who is going to do any inspection and enforcement...

 

[Abi Cott]

If you apply for consent you are supposed to get a decision within 8 weeks.

I would apply with the flue and boiler locations detailed and thoroughly photographed and what the exterior would look like with a flue in it. Someone half decent on Photoshop could mock that up (I'm a piss poor amateur, but I could do it if you're stuck). A map of the area with the property and it's land outlined in red. There are plenty of sites that will help you to do that to scale. Aim to pay less than £20 for the privilege.
Regarding the pipes state that they will be run in a sympathetic manner with surface runs where alternatives could effect the architectural heritage of the building. All that costs you is the map that you will reuse in future applications

 

[cazzz]

Can anyone guess which council this is ?

South Cambs?

 

[88v8]

I've been contemplating installing central heating (currently electric). I'm getting to the view that I shouldn't, because there is no way of avoiding having lots of surface pipes. They might be boxinable, but even that could be ugly. Its not a big deal, as I estimate my total energy costs with electric heating are not vastly higher than they would be with central heating (given it has to be oil).

So, what, you have storage heaters on Economy Seven?

If you're contemplating a change to save money, include the installation cost, reckon that the boiler will probably not last ten years and you have to notionally put aside the money to replace it, and also include the loss of the interest you could earn on the capital you'll have to expend.
(Dividends or coupons at 5%, say).
Now, how does the money saving look?

If you use cast iron rads, they can fit in pretty well.
As regards the pipes, you may be able to drop them behind curtains or in corners, and provided the rooms are not brightly lit you won't really notice.
Alternatively, use iron for the surface pipes and run them on skirting clips.
https://www.bes.co.uk/hospital-pipe-bracket-28mm-brass-9579
Then they too will look 'period'.

When you calculate the radiator sizes, include the emissions from the pipes. Surface pipe gives off a decent amount of heat.
15mm pipe about 45 Bthu/ft and 22mm about 65 Bthu/ft.

I wonder if the lack of a CO is temporary or permanent.

Ivor

 

[Bogart]

Or try not to hide the copper pipe. Keep it clean and sparkly at it can actually look good. Nice cast iron rads fed with bright copper, in my opinion, can look rather nice. As mentioned before if they are not bothering being in existence why care about informing them. I am of the old school as to what someone does not know cannot harm them. There is, again in my opinion, too much interference in ones daily lives. What have Building control in all honesty got to interfere with you for example in fitting an oil boiler or running an new electrical circuit. I have just run a new circuit for an induction hob and they can shove Part P where it fits. Rant over, now await the expected replies from the usual suspects.

 

[a twig]

If you're contemplating a change to save money, include the installation cost, reckon that the boiler will probably not last ten years and you have to notionally put aside the money to replace it, and also include the loss of the interest you could earn on the capital you'll have to expend.
(Dividends or coupons at 5%, say).
Now, how does the money saving look?

Both Bosch and Vaillant offer 10 year warranty these days, plus where will give you a 5% return these days that offers a similar level of reliability? :twisted:

 

[Flyfisher]

Or try not to hide the copper pipe. Keep it clean and sparkly at it can actually look good. Nice cast iron rads fed with bright copper, in my opinion, can look rather nice.

I tend to agree . . . or paint the pipes the same colour as the background and soon they'll be hardly noticeable.

Old houses cannot practically remain completely untouched and original. If they did they would be deemed uninhabitable and an empty property decays far faster than an occupied one so there has to be some flexibility if our period properties are to survive. I imagine we all have that new fangled electrickery thing with all its various fittings (including, in our case, a fair bit of the wiring 'hidden' in surface mounted steel conduit!) so what's wrong with a few bits of copper heating pipe? Of course it should be installed with some thought and not simply destroy anything in its way, which might lead to slightly longer pipe runs etc, but that's the name of the game . . . working with the house rather than simply beating it into submission with large power tools!

As mentioned before if they are not bothering being in existence why care about informing them.

Indeed.

 

[88v8]

. I have just run a new circuit for an induction hob and they can shove Part P where it fits.

Better than running it off a 13 amp socket. They will work, but less power.

'Which' just reviewed induction hobs, but I suppose you've bought yours so I won't tell you what they said

Ivor

 

[88v8]

Both Bosch and Vaillant offer 10 year warranty these days, plus where will give you a 5% return these days that offers a similar level of reliability?

Preference shares. BWRA, NWBD.
Dividends - Shell etc.

Ivor