Purchase of smidge of neghbours garden

[L1zzy]

Hi all - have had the fantastic news that after a years wait one of my neighbours will consider selling me a part of her garden. Currently I have no front garden to my (now very pretty) cottage just an old boundary wall about 1m from front of cottage that used to look out (in old photos) onto a communal path which ran in front of all the cottages in our terrace. Thsi path has long since been incorporated into this neighbours garden.The purchase of a small wonky triangular section of my neighbours garden directly in front of my cottage will aestehically enhance the view of my cottage from the front significantly. However the wonky triangle I would like to buy is quite small - about 20m on its longest side and 3m at the wide end. I need guidance - my neighbour knows I'm keen to enhance the aesthetic value of my house,has already approached a local EA but hasn't told me a price - just that the agent said it was less about the loss of value to her place more about the enhanced value of mine. SO I'm thinking next steps are get 2 x EA to value it , cost out price of fencing etc get a solicitor to quote fees and only then put in an offer. Has anyone any experience of this - any hot tips? I've looked at the garden law website but not much help.Does one putin a low bid and then move up?

 

[Moo]

When we sold a strip of garden to a neighbour many years ago we approached the local council to find out what they paid per sq m when they needed to do some road-widening. Our neighbours were so happy to pay on this basis that I suspect we had rather undervalued it.
But at least it would give you a minimum bench-mark to start negotiations.

 

[sarahj]

in our old place (a terrace cottage) there were back gardens and garages across the back lane from our yard which the council owned and we rented. Then the council decided we could all buy our gardens. We expected to be offered them at the price of agricultural land (they were little more than alloments and actually backed onto allotments, but the coucil decided to sell them to us at the price at which they thought it would increase the value of our houses. The gardens were poorly divided up and not everyone could have a garden, so if we had held out for less then someone else would have bought it. So, I think you will probably be stuck with using the value it will increase your property by. (After all that, the couple who eventually bought our house hadn't even realised that we had a garage and garden when they first came to see it!)

 

[MdB]

The previous owners of our house sold an odd shaped section of land to the neighbours for £1 + the cost of a new dividing wall. I guess they used to get on quite well..

As in all things like this, the correct price is the price you are willing to pay and they are willing to accept. Use the increase in property value as a guide but don't be ruled by it.

 

[joe1978]

Hi l1zzy,
I'm currently going through this but with the council and not a neighbour, but just so you know...
You're looking to purchase about 60sq m which is quite alot, even if it is a weird size.
We're purchasing about the same area in allotment land adjacent to our property from the council and were told it was valued at £37K!!! :shock: But to avoid a lengthy and very costly Land Registry arbritration and subsequent appeal processes for both parties (very very long story ) we settled at £2K plus £500 costs. One of the Property Dept bods had told me OTR that the council recently had legal costs of £17K to get a "win" of £4K from someone in the same sutuation as me!

We haven't had other valuations as we're getting a bargain-ish but I would get as many valuations as possible and what that value is in respect of eg value as development land, agricultural land or as a proportion of increase in your property value.

Hope this helps a bit.

Joe

 

[skier-hughes]

I think MdB's is right. A night in the pub over a few drinks should sort it out after you've both got the valuations in.

We bought a 1/3 acre from our neighbouring farmer. He sold it to us as agricultural land, same price he's recently sold another 6 acres at.

His land agent was aghast, he said it should have been valued as to how much it would increase our house value as, so instead of some £6k per acre, he was suggesting something in the region of £30k pa.

Be prepared to also pay your neighbours solicitors fees.

Graham

 

[Nemesis]

I'm currently going through this but with the council and not a neighbour, but just so you know...


You're looking to purchase about 60sq m which is quite alot, even if it is a weird size.
We're purchasing about the same area in allotment land adjacent to our property from the council and were told it was valued at £37K!!! But to avoid a lengthy and very costly Land Registry arbritration and subsequent appeal processes for both parties (very very long story ) we settled at £2K plus £500 costs. One of the Property Dept bods had told me OTR that the council recently had legal costs of £17K to get a "win" of £4K from someone in the same sutuation as me!

That's cheering - we had a similar dispute (allotment/garden) and a date fixed in Lunnon for a Lands Tribunal for a chunk of land (not us but a relative, although I did most of the legal work for it all).

Half an acreish - which we eventually settled before the Trubunal at a cost of a few hundred quid - and the local authority had paid out I gather six grand up to then for a barrister (who was a leading land one, but got such a lot wrong...) with whole heap more to come if he was to represent them at the Tribunal.

I seem to have persuaded the authority that we had a better case than they had and we came to an arrangement. Paid a couple of hundred in legal stuff for Land Registry I recall.

Nothing to do with the original post but that's cheered me up!

 

[L1zzy]

Hi all thankyou for all feedback. Joe1978 its funny but right from teh start of the 'idea' I had been thinking in terms of value of land to me is in region of £2k and I would pay legal costs and possibly for teh new boundary fencing so in a way not disimilar to your own situation. Having naively just rung the Estate agents my neighbour said she'd used in order to arrange a valuation they kindly said they couldn't obviously do this as it would compromise things but - in a general sort of a way they basically said we didn't give her a value but normally in these cases what we suggest is people offer what its worth to them and base this on the increased value to their property if this piece of land is purchased. So my next step is to get a different EA to value my property if this bit of land was added.

Many thanks to everyone who's pitched in my last question is what do you all think of the idea of my paying for the refencing? or woudl going halves be enough? (it will be quite a large amount of fencing and this on top of my having to get my existing bounadry wall and possibly my other neighbours fence revised!

 

[Nemesis]

BTW - check that the incorporation of communal path into neighbouring garden is all above board!

If those who had access rights over the path have those in deeds it may not be!

 

[joe1978]

L1zzy, for us the redrawn deeds to be submitted to LR state who is responible for which boundry, ie ME!! But it is the council I'm dealing with and any fencing quality/maintanence would be linked to my property value/aesthetics so I'm happy to be responsible in this case.

That's cheering - we had a similar dispute (allotment/garden) and a date fixed in Lunnon for a Lands Tribunal for a chunk of land (not us but a relative, although I did most of the legal work for it all).

Half an acreish - which we eventually settled before the Trubunal at a cost of a few hundred quid - and the local authority had paid out I gather six grand up to then for a barrister (who was a leading land one, but got such a lot wrong...) with whole heap more to come if he was to represent them at the Tribunal.

I seem to have persuaded the authority that we had a better case than they had and we came to an arrangement. Paid a couple of hundred in legal stuff for Land Registry I recall.

Nothing to do with the original post but that's cheered me up!

nemesis,
My council were pretty aggressive and had already appointed a barrister since the LR decision could have went either way, it was 50:50. And they also stated that they would definately appeal if it went against them. There was no way I was going to pay £x000's for some guy in a wig...fortunately neither were they and an agreement was made. Glad things worked out ok for you too.

joe

 

[skier-hughes]

As for the fencing etc, it all depends on the contract drawn up, but you are generally epxected to pay for fencing, any and all repairs and make good anything during the works.

If you feel you are getting a good eal on purchase price then you could seal it buy offering to pay for all of this, if you feel they are being tight then fight for a 50-50 split, but don't feel agrieved if they still insist on you paying, after all, they are in essence doing you a favour :wink:

 

[Nemesis]

nemesis,
My council were pretty aggressive and had already appointed a barrister since the LR decision could have went either way, it was 50:50. And they also stated that they would definately appeal if it went against them. There was no way I was going to pay £x000's for some guy in a wig...fortunately neither were they and an agreement was made. Glad things worked out ok for you too.

joe

Yes so was the one we were dealing with - but at minion level. At VERY senior level (I asked for a meeting...) when I pointed out the flaws in the argument, porkies in their employee's statement, legal precedent, the fact our attempts to negotiate on behalf of an elderly relative had drawn a blank (well they said they would sell but at vast cost...) and that so far they had wasted a great deal of taxpayer's cash on a barrister who seemed not to have much idea and I was going to go to the Auditors etc etc... as well as complain to the Ombudsman and make a formal complaint regarding the behaviour of one of their senior employees... and a press campaign and TV (I know a few people)...

I think that the problem is some council employees to whom these things are delegated take it all personally and can't see when they are in a hole they need to stop digging.

At very senior level (often they haven't any idea what is happening in the name of the council!) sense at times prevails.

No, we weren't going to pay a barrister either, although the date was set for a hearing (it was all last minute deals) I would have put the case myself. We had a pretty good one, although you never know how things will go, although the bit of case law I was relying on was subsequently overturned by the Euopean Court it wasn't until after we had done the deal.

It rankles that we paid anything at all, actually, but they are considerably out of pocket and had we gone to tribunal and won they would have been even more so - barristers don't come cheap.

Sounds like you are doing OK too. Land isn't cheap.

 

[middi]

Somehow I find the suggested approach to purchasing this bit of land unorthodox.

Surely the best amicable way to proceed with this ( neighbour and all that) is to be prepared to pay what the neighbour is asking for, if this sum is more than what you are prepared to pay let him/her know ( with a smile of course) and negotiate amongst yourselves over a pint or two( as suggested).

There is no guide line price on amenity land purchase more accurate than what the seller wants for it. If you start quoting what the land is worth on a financial investment prospective ( it being less than asked for) and the seller's chain get's rattled, he/she will tell you to go and buy it cheaper somewhere else.

 

[Penners]

I agree with Middi. If you get on well your neighbour, it's best to try a very informal chat about an agreed price.

If you start the negotiation by saying that of course you intend to pay for the fencing and for their legal costs, you may find that they'll be reasonable about the cost of the land.

I think the one thing you really want to avoid at all costs is to start quoting "official" valuations at them. You could cause ill feeling and jeopardise the whole deal.

Bear in mind that you're in a seller's market. You want the land - they don't have to sell it to you!

Good luck.

 

[Lime]

The land is worth whatever the seller demands for it.
The best way is to consult a solicitor first to find out what needs to be agreed and then have a chat with your neighbour about price and all the other details.
You don't have to be completely forthcoming with all the information that your solicitor gives you but it is best to be forewarned of what is required to be agreed before entering into any bargaining.
Such things as where the drains run, water pipes, electric etc can complicate the sale.
Just agreeing on price without all the other required details being discussed may result a change of heart later on.

Above all, keep your neighbour happy.

 

[L1zzy]

Hi all - thankyou again for sage advice as ever. Just to allay concerns - at this stage my neighbour and i have agreed I will submit my proposed price to her in writing but without either of us calling in the legal eagles - only when we've negotiated the price and agreed to go ahead will we call in the legals to get it properly registered and dealt with. At this stage I'm just getting my ducks in a row so I can prepare my written offer to her. ie i need to know a ball park figure on our joint legal costs,the various fencing,on top of the price I'm prepared to pay for the actual land based on a verbal valuation by a local EA.Interestingly I'm remortageing currently and have recently had the Buildling Society valuation (using one of their standard tables) so I can then compare this to what the informal valuation is from the EA to gauge the rough value of this additional bit of land.Only when I know roughly the overall cost of the transaction will I Know if I can afford it! could be I'm in for a shock!