Progress - oh and a question!

[RChurch]

Hi all,

Well the balancing act of running repairs on our own cottage and the renovation project continues HOWEVER unlike our current house which lacks any form of insulation bar in the loft I have a number of exposed internal brick and stone walls in the new project.

17th century grade II listed which is pretty much derelict.

I am currently putting together my paperwork for listed building consent for all of the works to the new project.

Externally the upper elevations are of brick and timber
Externally the lower internal walls are stone and sarsen stone.

The sarsen stone ones I am leaving cleaned and exposed as requested by the CO.

The questions are:

1. Internally the sitting room and bedroom directly above it are completely stripped out (as I bought the place) walls are stone in the sitting room and brick in the bedroom and have been boarded over previously by the looks of it. I would like to insulate and then dry line (mainly so I can hide wiring and pipework). Would this be acceptable / effective using sheepswool insulation or similar and modern plasterboard? The alternative is to replaster with lime / hemp ref the warmth but then I will struggle to hide the wiring and pipework?!

Simply I want to avoid condensation / damp and the like!

What are the options others have used both successfully and unsuccessfully?!!!?

cheers
Churchy

 

[Penners]

Hello Churchy

There are many answers to your question, depending on (a) your own preference and (b) what the CO has to say (I'm assuming that your mention of a CO means that the building is listed).

In my inexpert view, if you plan to dry line with plasterboard, there's really not much point in using sheepswool as your insulation. The wool may be breathable, but the plasterboard won't be. In addition to this, you'll need a considerably greater thickness of sheepswool to achieve a given insulation factor than you would need for a modern insulation material such as Kingspan. So you'll lose more floor space if you use wool.

Your alternative of using a lime/hemp plaster direct on to the walls certainly won't achieve anything like the insulation factor that a lining of sheepswool or Kingspan would give. However, I think it would be possible to hide your cabling and pipework, provided your CO would allow you to chase this into the brickwork (which he/she may not).

I suggest that you really need to talk the matter over with your CO. Be as certain as you can be what he/she will and won't accept in every aspect of your works to the house before you submit your LBC application. That way you stand the best possible chance of gaining your consent as quickly and easily as possible.

 

[MatthewC]

I suggest that you really need to talk the matter over with your CO. Be as certain as you can be what he/she will and won't accept in every aspect of your works to the house before you submit your LBC application. That way you stand the best possible chance of gaining your consent as quickly and easily as possible.

(Matthew's bold/underlining

In theory yes. You could have a meeting with him/her and helpful advice about your plans is given, but you still cannot actually rely on him/her approving your application when you submit it exactly as suggested! :x (Bitter experience)

 

[Penners]

I know you've had an unfortunate experience in that regard, Matthew, but I have say that mine has been the opposite.

With all of the COs that I've dealt with (which has been a few), I have had a lengthy chat before submitting an application. I've discussed our proposals, listened to the COs ideas (which have frequently been an improvement on our own) and noted the COs 'red lines'. As a consequence, I've never had any problem with gaining LBC for the works that have been proposed.

That pre-application discussion is well worthwhile.

 

[Flyfisher]

That pre-application discussion is well worthwhile.

I can second that from personal experience, especially the bit about " listened to the COs ideas (which have frequently been an improvement on our own) "

I appreciate not all applications may be trouble-free, but I can see no advantage in not having a pre-application discussion.

 

[Keithj]

I second (third?) that. Our CO was extremely helpful, even suggested something we would otherwise never have thought of asking for - definitely an ally rather than an adversary. When we submitted the official LBCs, they were approved quickly and with no problems. The only surprise was over double glazing, and that was not a problem since it was "like with like".

 

[El Greyo]

Hi Churchy

Another option is to use the sheepswool then use a wool/wood board (such as from Ty Mawr) and lime plaster on that. It will be breathable and the wool/wood board provides thermal insulation too. This result in a thicker wall but gives you somewhere to hide the cables and pipes.

I've been investigating this method for our house but I haven't tried it yet. I'm a little concerned about condensation at the interface between sheepswool and brick so I'm trying to get some expert advice before going ahead.

Talking to the CO is all very well and may work with some local authorities, but here it has taken me up to a month to get a response to a query.

 

[RChurch]

Thanks all - some interesting thoughts!

Forgot to mention in my original post that I have had a pre app chat and email discussion with the CO but I just wanted to throw my thoughts out there to see what you folk could advise on!

And yes approaches do vary certianly by county as our local CO to the house we live in is as helpful as a chocolate tea pot......

HOWEVER in my initial delaing with the CO where my project is it seems that we will be able to openly discuss things instead of being told in no uncertain terms what we can and can't do.

The only issue I have faced so far is that working hours at the local council seem to be VERY flexible - they never seem to be working when I am!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

cheers
Churchy

 

[RChurch]

Progress and another question!!!!!!

Things are moving on at the 'project' - today we made a discovery!

The sitting room floor had what I thought was concrete screed over it - having tapped it in a few places it had lifted and sounded hollow...........so being inquisitive I thought I would take a bit up (it turns out to be a sort of concrete bitumen mix ........... just one corner turned into 4 corners to see if what I had disccovered covered the whole floor and behold I have uncovered a full brick floor that I believe to be original.

The walls of the cottage (some full sarsen stone walls and others stone and flint) are bone dry but look as thoguh they may have been lime plastered at some point (this was hacked off before I took ownership).

Unsuprisingly the brick floor smells a little damp (but then it would having been under such a top covering for so long!) so have left it to dry out and then we'll go from there. The bricks have been perfectly preserved which is one upside of someone in the past laying the concrete / bitumen.

If the bricks do dry and I can therefore leave them exposed my question is what is the best way to treat them?

Or do I simply re lime mortar the joints and leave well alone? I guess they 'need' to be treated with something to help maintentance and wear?

cheers
Churchy

 

[Penners]

That's quite a find, Churchy! Have you uncovered the whole of the old floor yet? If not, I suspect that you may have to prepare yourself to find some of it in a deteriorated state - my modest experience of such floors suggests that they were usually covered with concrete when a proportion of the bricks had become cracked and crumbly. But you may be lucky.

If you haven't lifted all the concrete yet, I suggest you wait until you have done so before deciding how to proceed with restoring it to use. And do post a photo for us.

 

[RChurch]

Thanks Penners - yes I have done the whole floor! I did the 4 corners and then couldn't resist - I had run out of lime mortar so had to keep busy!

There are some cracked bricks but generally I cannot believe how good a condition they are in - back there tomorrow to see if they have begun to dry - think I'll open all doors and get a good through draft blowing.

Any ideas on a treatment if I decide / can keep them?

Due to take some progress photos tomorrow too so will post pic then.

cheers for now!

 

[JoceAndChris]

Lucky lucky you! What a wonderful, and surprising, find. ( surprising as like Mr P I'd have expected it to be pretty damaged)
My feeling on bricks is do nothing. Ecover mop now and again. But if you'd like to seal and wax, I recommend the Liberon products - available online or in good antique centres. There's a Stone Floor Sealer and a Stone Floor Wax. They're breathable products. The wax provides a nice temporary shine and needs reapplying every 3 months or so. Do a test patch first. Never ever ever ever use wax on stone brick or wood floors without sealing first.

 

[LadyArowana]

I'm surprised nobody has asked for pictures yet :lol: .......... I think we definitely need a look at what you have found. I'm not saying that people here will sulk and refuse to give you any more advice unless they get them, but they can be a surly bunch here if not placated with house porn.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

I'm surprised nobody has asked for pictures yet :lol: .......... I think we definitely need a look at what you have found. I'm not saying that people here will sulk and refuse to give you any more advice unless they get them, but they can be a surly bunch here if not placated with house porn.

Well, I'm withholding my usual advice to apply linseed oil to anything which doesn't move, until Churchy feeds us some Pictures ! :wink:

 

[AMc]

It's possible the floor was covered in bitumen as a damp proofing measure and then screeded to deal with damp issues or it may have been an entirely cosmetic "modernisation". When we were digging out the original and now new kitchen we found a thin screed under vinyl tiles then floorbricks covered in bitumen. I was really worried about removing the bitumen but a couple of days without the screed and it simply brushed off.

When we relaid the floor I used Osmo Polyx on the floorbricks - it is microporous a.k.a. breathable but my floor isn't so it made little difference to me. In retrospect it may have been unnecessary and the bricks would have been fine on their own.

Just to temper the enthusiasm - I have a brick floor in one of the cellars (concrete in the other). To the touch the bricks appear bone dry but leave something - even a bit of cardboard on it and it will quickly get soggy and go mouldy. Not that I would expect anything else in a cellar but you may want to try putting something sacrificial in a corner to see if you need to look at ways to deal with moisture.

 

[Penners]

they can be a surly bunch here if not placated with house porn.

Surly?

Gentlemen - are we going to stand for being dubbed "surly"?!

Begone wench - get thee to a nunnery! :evil:

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Better surly than Shirley, surely?

 

[Feltwell]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0A5t5_O8hdA

It's an oldie but a goodie....

 

[Penners]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0A5t5_O8hdA

It's an oldie but a goodie....

I bet I know what that's going to be without even clicking on it!

Leslie Nielsen...?

 

[Feltwell]

Well I would say "well done Penners" but frankly I was so predictable I'm not sure it warrants it!

Yes, the clip from Airplane, a film I quite enjoy but that Mrs F detests.