Preventing the proliferation of plastic

[Abi Cott]

My terrace is grade II listed largely because of the classic Georgian shop frontages. Unfortunately one of the houses is owned by a slum landlord. Today my neighbour observed the windows and doors were being measured up for replacement. The person doing it did not like being watched.

What if anything can we do when the van full of plastic turns up?

Is there anything we can do to preempt the arrival of the plastic?

 

[plasticpigeon]

Inform the conservation officer?

 

[Abi Cott]

Inform the conservation officer?

Done!

We have quite a large conservation department in our area, (probably due to Saltaire) I've got the email address of one of them so I flashed off an email. Hopefully I will get a reply back within the next couple of weeks.

However I could really do with giving my neighbour some guidance on what he could do. He's quite incensed and he is around when I'm out at work so he's likely to be the person on the ground on the day.

I have a sneaking suspicion that not much can be done until work commences and then a "stop" demand needs issuing via a solicitor, which can be a bugger if it's a weekend. I've read pretty much every post on this forum from the last 5 years and that's been the impression I've gathered.

I was hoping someone with experience or one of the COs might give me something. Waiting until the plastic is installed and praying that the large (but underfunded) conservation department decides to use their teeth is somewhat unlikely to have the desired result.

If I was in Saltaire..................but I'm not

 

[Owain]

What if anything can we do when the van full of plastic turns up?

Ask the driver if he's aware that the building is listed and that if he fits the windows he personally will be committing a criminal offence:

The offence is committed by the person who carried out the works (possibly a builder) and by anyone who caused them to be carried out (someone instructing a builder).

It is not a defence to say that the fact that the building was listed was not known ....

The maximum penalty is two years' imprisonment or an unlimited fine. In determining the fine a judge must have regard to any financial benefit which has accrued or appears likely to accrue to the wrongdoer so as to deny them any benefits.

https://historicengland.org.uk/advice/hpg/uwandhc/offences/

Planning (Listed Buildings and Conservation Areas) Act 1990

and that you've got his vehicle registration number and physical description (or even better, they're on CCTV)

 

[Cubist]

Hi Abi,

Owains dead right.

And a slum landlord would be stark staring bonkers to go ahead without the relevant permissions - if he did he'll pay 2-3 times more to correct the situation afterwards.

Cheers,
Cubist

 

[Abi Cott]

Hi Abi,

Owains dead right.

And a slum landlord would be stark staring bonkers to go ahead without the relevant permissions - if he did he'll pay 2-3 times more to correct the situation afterwards.

Cheers,
Cubist

If they prosecute which doesn't often happen in this area. Most of the budget is concentrated in Saltaire because it's a World Heritage Site.

Someone did tell me that my local authority has more listed buildings than any other city bar one (That being London) I don't know if that's true.

 

[Owain]

The landlord/owner might not care, but the driver (and everyone else in the fitting crew) probably will.

Maybe print off the historicengland webpage and give a copy to them each? (I assume this is in England). Perhaps less confrontational than making verbal accusations.

 

[Abi Cott]

What if anything can we do when the van full of plastic turns up?

Ask the driver if he's aware that the building is listed and that if he fits the windows he personally will be committing a criminal offence:

The offence is committed by the person who carried out the works (possibly a builder) and by anyone who caused them to be carried out (someone instructing a builder).

It is not a defence to say that the fact that the building was listed was not known ....

The maximum penalty is two years' imprisonment or an unlimited fine. In determining the fine a judge must have regard to any financial benefit which has accrued or appears likely to accrue to the wrongdoer so as to deny them any benefits.

https://historicengland.org.uk/advice/hpg/uwandhc/offences/

Planning (Listed Buildings and Conservation Areas) Act 1990

and that you've got his vehicle registration number and physical description (or even better, they're on CCTV)

Thank you that is VERY useful. I've forwarded to my neighbour who is seriously considering printing it out so he can hand it to any plastic fitters that turn up. He will also record it with his mobile phone, good evidence and also likely to put the fear into them.

Given my working hours he's our first line of defence and he is pretty bloody determined that there won't be any plastic in his terrace, so I'm feeling a bit more optimistic

 

[Abi Cott]

The landlord/owner might not care, but the driver (and everyone else in the fitting crew) probably will.

Maybe print off the historicengland webpage and give a copy to them each? (I assume this is in England). Perhaps less confrontational than making verbal accusations.

It's Bradford Metropolitan District Council if that helps

 

[Owain]

It's Bradford Metropolitan District Council if that helps

Maybe invite the local councillor round for tea?

 

[Abi Cott]

Richard is lovely, and very proactive. The first thing my neighbour did was send him an email, Richard is chasing it up from his end.

My job was to contact a CO, because I've got a direct email for one of the local ones and to find out what we can actually do.

The fact that the operative/builder/fitter is equally culpable is something I didn't know. My neighbour is delighted with the news. He's still rather concerned that the fitters won't give a toss, the track record in this area is pretty poor. But I think we have the best chance we can have.

I don't hold out much hope for enforcement, the budgets are small and the number of listed and conservation area structures is large.

I think we've got the best chance we can. We have between us contacted all the people we can think of. We have a 90% chance that someone will be onsite when work commences and we now know what to say to put the fitters off.

Once I get a reply from the CO or he gets a full response from the Councillor I think we will be as close as we can be to stopping the windows being plasticised.

Frankly the most useful input so far has been from you guys, but the wheels of politics take a long time to turn.

 

[88v8]

Take some good pics of the frontage, include a daily paper with the date showing.
Evidence.

Photograph the windows in detail so they will know exactly what's gone missing.

When/if the fitter arrives, take the contact details from the van and immediately call his head office, if he has one. Tell them an offence is being committed and they are on the hook and are being reported to the Police.
Then call the police and report the offence.

Our local CO made a property owner remove more than 40 plastic windows and replace them. The joinery bill alone was over £90,000.

Ivor

 

[Owain]

Take some good pics of the frontage, include a daily paper with the date showing.
Evidence.

Photo or video the old windows coming out and post it to the council's (Historic England, local paper, etc) "Twitter" websites.

 

[a twig]

When they turn up, stand there in a suit with a clipboard , hard hat and high Viz, conspicuously taking notes and photographs.

Usually puts tradies off a treat

 

[Owain]

And if they do take the old windows out, see if you can grab them. Then you may be able to sell them back to the original owner when the enforcement notice comes through

 

[Abi Cott]

The original windows are in an extremely poor state of repair. I doubt they will survive removal. They really do need replacing..........just not with plastic.

 

[Spoilt Victorian Child]

Definitely try and actually speak with the Conservation Officer ASAP *before* this happens, they will get a flood of emails every day and may never respond.
If it comes to the day of fitting the contractor will say 'just following orders', and you may not be able to speak to his boss (or the landlord) there and then to advise him of his liability. (I have had a similar experience to this.)

Do you know who the landlord is? Is it an individual or a company?
You can find out who the owner is and their address from the Land Registry website for £3.
https://eservices.landregistry.gov.uk/eservices/FindAProperty/view/QuickEnquiryInit.do

You need to get the relevant parties aware of who each other are, and talking to each other!

 

[Abi Cott]

I've had an email from the conservation officer, they have added the building to their watch list and given me the number to call if I see contractors on site. It helps that I have already developed a relationship with her I think.

 

[Abi Cott]

I know the landlord is an older woman. I know that previous tenants had a radiator fall off the wall onto their child and she didn't feel it needed any remedial action and that several of the windows have been broken and not weather tight for years. I don't think she is local.

 

[Spoilt Victorian Child]

I've had an email from the conservation officer, they have added the building to their watch list and given me the number to call if I see contractors on site. It helps that I have already developed a relationship with her I think.

Good news.

Man that landlord sounds a nightmare.