Preserving brick/ pamment floor

[emmalavaine]

Hello,
We have just uncovered a brick/pamment mix floor in the 19thC part of our house. It is very damp in places as it had a 4" thick concrete floor over the top. What is the best way to care for the brick/pamment floor & will it always be quite damp ? We are lowering the outside ground levels & removing the impervious outer paint at the footings to help it breathe.
Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated, thank you.

 

[malcolm]

I've moved this post into it's own thread so it doesn't get lost. Also a very warm welcome. Do post some photos of the floor to give people a better idea of the floor and where you are at. And more info on the house just because it sounds interesting.

It sounds like you are doing very much the right thing so far. Water will always get in. Letting it get out again is the trick. Not much of an answer but others will help.

 

[emmalavaine]

I've moved this post into it's own thread so it doesn't get lost. Also a very warm welcome. Do post some photos of the floor to give people a better idea of the floor and where you are at. And more info on the house just because it sounds interesting.

It sounds like you are doing very much the right thing so far. Water will always get in. Letting it get out again is the trick. Not much of an answer but others will help.

Nice to meet you Malcolm & thank you for your reply. Will attach some photos of our progress. The rest of the house is timber framed & nice & dry thank fully as it has suspended reclaimed wood floors. What’s the best way to let the water out ? Also, would it be better to fully re-lay the whole floor on limecrete to help stop the ingress ?
Thank you

 

[emmalavaine]

Floor so far…..

 

[Cubist]

Hi Emma(?),

To try to answer your latest question I find I need to ask a few others before I, or anyone else for that matter, can provide any effective advice.

As I understand it this floor was covered with concrete for some time and perhaps, judging by the pictures to a depth of a couple of inches. Presumably there was no plastic membrane below the concrete?

How long has the brick/pamment floor been exposed to air? The concrete will have trapped much of any rising damp from below ground and much of that will have in effect been pushed toward the walls. Depending on what materials the bricks were laid on and the quality of natural and man-made drainage around the perimeter of the house than it may take longer than you expect for this floor to dry out to a satisfactory level.

Personally I would advocate that you remove some of the damaged bricks/pamments near one of the external walls to determine what they were laid on and to gauge how wet the sub-soil is below that material.

Ultimately though I suspect that you will need to take up the floor and start afresh after deciding on the best approach for the house.

Cheers for now but please bear in mind that the floors of these old houses are major players in the breathability of the structure and impermeable floors can do more damage than good.

I'm sure that others will begin chipping in soon.

All the best,
Cubist

 

[emmalavaine]

Many thanks for reply Cubist

It looks like the tiles/bricks are laid on sand then earth underneath. The concrete floor we removed was 4” thick in places, tapering to about 2” (the ground actually slopes to the outside back side of the room. There was no impervious cover between the original floor & concrete. We removed a high concrete patio that met the inside wall/floor & have dug down several inches & created an 8” wide ‘gully’ & filled it with 1cm pea shingle to help with drainage.

We’re hoping to level the floor inside & replace all damaged bricks & pamments. Maybe it would be better to relay the whole floor ? If so, on sand or sand & limecrete ?

Thank you,
Emma

 

[stuart45]

I'd relay the floor if you have the time. Limecrete makes a good base.

 

[Cubist]

Many thanks for reply Cubist

It looks like the tiles/bricks are laid on sand then earth underneath. The concrete floor we removed was 4” thick in places, tapering to about 2” (the ground actually slopes to the outside back side of the room. There was no impervious cover between the original floor & concrete. We removed a high concrete patio that met the inside wall/floor & have dug down several inches & created an 8” wide ‘gully’ & filled it with 1cm pea shingle to help with drainage.

We’re hoping to level the floor inside & replace all damaged bricks & pamments. Maybe it would be better to relay the whole floor ? If so, on sand or sand & limecrete ?

Thank you,
Emma

Cheers Emma,

There are others who frequent this forum who have more experience with such floors, Stuart being one such I believe, and I would echo his recommendation. If you are planning to do this job yourselves some suppliers, such as Ty Mawr, offer hands on training courses that you may be interested in. Their specialists can also offer personalised advice concerning your particular project should you choose to join one of their courses - they are all very helpful people.

In my opinion its probably wisest to lift and clean all the pamments and clean away and/or compact all loose material from beneath them. Undoubtedly, more pamments will be lost as they lifted and cleaned for re-use and you may be surprised by the variations in their dimensions. Variations in Length and Breadth are fairly easily managed but Depth is a different story. Best to keep that dimension at the top of the priorities if shopping for reclaimed payments.

As, I think, Malcolm has already said; you guys seem to be doing all the right things so more power to your elbows.

All the best,
Cubist (aka Steve)

 

[malcolm]

I wouldn't re-lay the floor in an attempt to get the water out. It'll dry out by itself so long as the ground levels on adjacent floors or adjacent outside are lower.

It's a characterful floor and once you do start lifting and re-laying the temptation will be not to put a lot of the broken pantiles back. I would probably lift it myself just to make it level, but I would try to resist the urge to make it all look completely new when the floor goes back down. You can get pantiles from reclamation yards. Or I'll have 30 of the square ones spare after I do my fireplace hearth.

 

[emmalavaine]

Dear Steve & Stuart,

Thank you both for your help, it’s much appreciated. Will have a good think on how to proceed…… I’d better get those sleeves rolled up !

All the best,
Emma

I wouldn't re-lay the floor in an attempt to get the water out. It'll dry out by itself so long as the ground levels on adjacent floors or adjacent outside are lower.

It's a characterful floor and once you do start lifting and re-laying the temptation will be not to put a lot of the pantiles back. I would probably lift it just to make it level, but I would try to resist the urge to make it all look completely new when the floor goes back down. You can get pantiles from reclamation yards. Or I'll have 30 of the square ones spare after I do my fireplace hearth.

Thank you for your reply Malcolm,

Weve decided to do just what you’ve said. Saving what we can, levelling & replacing with reclaimed. It’s a big job but will be worth it, wonkyness & all

 

[Zebra]

@malcolm pantiles? You mean pamments? Or pancakes? Pantaloons? But not pantiles... those go on the roof...

 

[Cubist]

@malcolm pantiles? You mean pamments? Or pancakes? Pantaloons? But not pantiles... those go on the roof...

Perhaps someone got their 'panties' in a twist?

Oh, that reminds me...... Malcolm, could we please use the English Language spell-checker rather than the colonial abomination to with it currently defaults? No offence to the poor souls that live there but I do despair of those that insist on re-inventing wheels!

P.S. And predictive text is a PITA too.

 

[malcolm]

@malcolm pantiles? You mean pamments? Or pancakes? Pantaloons? But not pantiles... those go on the roof...

That explains why my floors are so bumpy underfoot.

@Cubist - The spell checker we use is provided by your web browser. There should be some settings you can adjust to set the version of English. Same for predictive text.

 

[emmalavaine]

Hello again,

Any ideas on ‘to seal or not to seal’ ? I love the look of the dry bricks & pamments but am worried about coffee, wines & general dirt staining them. I’ve heard linseed oil is good to use.

Thanks again,
Emma

 

[Cubist]

That explains why my floors are so bumpy underfoot.

@Cubist - The spell checker we use is provided by your web browser. There should be some settings you can adjust to set the version of English. Same for predictive text.

Thank you Malcolm. Have made the changes and will watch what happens with interest.... so far so good.

 

[malcolm]

Any ideas on ‘to seal or not to seal’ ? I love the look of the dry bricks & pamments but am worried about coffee, wines & general dirt staining them. I’ve heard linseed oil is good to use.

It's good to use boiled linseed oil on very permeable floor coverings. I did that with the South American tiles in my kitchen which were fired at a low temperature and very permeable. Try one of your tiles first as the linseed oil needs to soak in to the permeable tile. If it doesn't soak in the tile isn't permeable and doesn't need the treatment, and if you don't wipe up the excess that remains after 10 minutes you'll end up with a stick mess that takes ages to dry.

A floor wax is a good treatment for a well sealed floor and it doesn't leave a sticky mess.