Positioning new digital TV aerial on my listed property?

[michael]

Do you need LBC or PP to install TV aerials on listed buildings (grade II)? I am looking to install a new TV aerial to pick up digital signals in my area. The current position of my analogue roof aerial is conveniently hidden in a roof valley but the new digital aerial would require mounting on a mast almost to the level of the roof ridges in order to pick up the signal from the new digital transmitter. This would make the new aerial visible on one small aspect of the house.

If as I suspect the new aerial position is not allowed then what’s the solution, no television in 2012 when the digital switchover takes place? (Not such a bad thing I suppose, less rubbish to watch).

The aerial technician has already tested the signal from various positions including the loft and has advised me that this mast position is really the only option.

 

[Flyfisher]

Have you considered the freesat service?

The dishes are smaller and less obtrusive than a decent terrestrial antenna and they don't need to be mounted as high as possible for good reception. Indeed, they can be mounted at ground-level if you wish. All they need is a clear line to the satellite.

 

[MdB]

Is the location of your transmitter changing or is it that you are currently not getting a strong enough digital signal from it to get a good result?

It is worth noting that the digital TV checkers are very pessimistic. Apparently we shouldn't get a signal at all at the moment and we actually can get all the channels in digital form. The digital signal strength will also be significantly increasing on switch over. Our local transmitter (50 something miles away which we shouldn't be receiving at the moment but do) is going to be increased by a factor of 18 on switch over.

I would first of all try and see if you can get a digital signal on your current aerial and secondly look up your current transmitter to see if the signal is going to be increased.

 

[michael]

New transmitter position I’m afraid. We currently have two transmitters in operation in our area. The analogue transmitter is due north of me and aligns nicely with the valley on my roof, the new digital transmitter is due west of me and you have to peak over the ridge of my heavy slate roof to pick up the signal.

I would like to pick up the digital signal now before the signal is boosted in 2012 so that I have more than the four channels currently available to me on analogue (cant get channel 5 in our area for some reason – I live in a valley). It would be nice to get BBC 4 and the news channel.

I might have to look at Freesat although I’ve never been fond of satellite dishes or the satellite organisations, don’t really know why, I’m just a bit old fashioned I suppose.

I subscribed to Sky many moons ago and gave it up after a year. Lots of sport which I’m not a great fan of, Lots of trashy American films, and hundreds of non descript programmes and all quite expensive. There was also occasional ‘pixilation’ or ‘freezing’ of the picture. I absolutely hated the whole thing. I realise Freesat is probably different but I’ve just developed a bit of a phobia about satellite TV.

 

[michael]

P.S. I have two slated double pitched roofs with a valley in between, effectively two buildings joined together each with their own double pitched roof. The valley and the gable end’s of the buildings point North West at one end and the opposite, South East at the other end.

One of the buildings is about 10ft higher than the other so the pitched roof elevation on the lower building comes right down to the valley, the opposite roof is elevated 10 ft above the valley i.e. the windows of the building look out onto the valley and the opposing roof.

There are very few satellite dishes in my area but the one I can see points due south and to an angle that is very low in the sky. I think even if I had a satellite dish in my roof valley, I wouldn’t be able to achieve the angle onto the satellite without obstruction from the higher of the two buildings. Positioning the dish anywhere else around the building would make it completely visible and a complete no-no.

 

[MdB]

An aerial inside your roof space might be a solution. I'm not sure how good slate is at stopping HF but it might be possible to get a good signal through it. Certainly, modern cement tiles don't attenuate the signal too much though they are a lot thinner.

 

[michael]

P.S seeing that television has become almost an essential part of modern day living and effectively a right of the individual citizen, do you think the authorities would make exceptions to the planning/conservation laws in cases where no solution can be found or would they continue to exercise their powers and deny an individual access to national broadcasting?

 

[michael]

Hi Mdb

Yes I looked into that and I had the Aerial technician crawling all around my loft with this huge great aerial in one hand connected to a signal meter in the other hand.

Unfortunately insufficient signal in the loft

 

[rogerh]

I've noticed new digital aerials appearing regularly in Bath, apparently without any LBC (and they have to be extra tall - well above the ridges - as the nearest transmitter doesn't yet support Freeview), despite the general availability of cable.

According to the official advice, though, "you generally need to apply for" LBC:

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/england/genpub/en/1115315236529.html

Next door have satellite dishes at ground level, in the back garden, perhaps to escape the attentions of the CO.

(Although, as you can see in The Wrong Box there were TV aerials on the Royal Crescent in Victorian times.)

 

[Mark]

I would say that the arm on a sat dish doesnt point at teh satellite - or at least not in terms of elevation, the signal bounces off the dish and is focused onto the end of the arm. So it is possible to position the dish in a spot where it is almost invisible. Or you could as said place the dish on the ground.

For uk programs you will need to be pointing roughly South South East. (28deg East of South to be exact).
You'll get all the bbc and itv channels, c4, film4, channel5 and a variety of tat. Oh, and Cbeebies which is apparently the essential one :roll:

 

[Lime]

The analogue tv signal is being switched off in some areas this year and for the rest of us in the next 2 or 3 years.
When this happens in most areas the digital signal will be altered.
some will have the existing digital transmitter power increased and channels altered/increased while other areas will have better or new signals from other transmitters.
In my area I have a choice of three main transmitters and all of them will be boosted in power eventually.
The consequence of that may mean that while a loft aerial does not work well now it may do so when analogue is switched off and the digital transmission signals are increased.

the problem with a dish is that it generally requires a receiving head for each tv and often a satellite box too.

 

[Jon Maine]

I was always told tv aerials need no consent, however sat dishes do.

 

[Moo]

We had exactly the same problem a few years ago when the terrestrial channels began to deteriorate in the summer when the trees in the park were in full leaf. We were spared the horror of a dish when we discovered that our street was already equipped with the necessary cables so changed to ntl (now Virgin). They did a really good job installing it, feeding the cables through the cellar and up to the ground and first floor via cupboards.
But that's no help, of course, if you live in rural parts.

 

[michael]

No cable TV here unfortunately.
I’ve already installed the coaxial cables in my home as part of a structured cabling system for computers and TV.
In total, I now have the facility for up to eight digital TV’s throughout the house (kitchen ,bedrooms, living room, office, etc) or eight digital radio tuners or a combination of both. I’m just waiting for the aerial and distribution amp to be fitted.
I suspect that a satellite installation would be more difficult and costly for this number of outlets?

 

[Jon Maine]

What you normally would do is run a coax to your main area, then another back to the aerial amplifier (special in and out sockets available for this). This enables you to use the sat box in your living room from anywhere else in the house, only on the same channel, but if you started watching something in the living room and wanted to finish in the bedroom or kitchen just the job.

It is what we have done here although I think there is enough junk on freeview without needing more from a satellite service also ( not needing to follow sport ) so I have installed for others in the future.

 

[michael]

Sounds like a step down from a digital aerial then. I’m presuming that with a digital aerial and a suitable 8 way distribution amp, I can have eight Tv’s on each showing a different programme which it appears is not the case with satellite.

 

[rogerh]

I think you'd still need a digital decoder for each set, either built-in or a set-top box.

 

[AMc]

I'm looking at installing Freesat decoders in three rooms.

You can have up to an 8 way LNB fitted to the dish (an OctoLNB) which will allow up to 8 digital satellite set top decoders to run independently from the same dish decoding up to 8 different channels at once. Digital recorders with two tuners (aka Sky+ and Freesat+) will need two feeds to the same point.

I know the LNB is powered by the set top decoder box, I assume that when multiple feeds are taken from the same dish one box powers the LNB and the others work off that.

The problem with routing the signal back from a single decoder into a co-ax distribution system is you can only decode a single channel at any one time and you tend to lose quality compared with independent decoders connected via SCART or HDMI to their own TVs. The advantage if you are a pay TV subscriber is that you only pay one subscription and have access to pay TV in all locations, the multiway LNB solution needs a subscription for each room to receive pay channels - not an issue with Freesat.

Panasonic make TVs with the Freesat decoder built in which cuts down on clutter, but they aren't the cheapest TVs.

 

[DaveBrigg]

We have a fairly bog standard digital aerial inside a slate roof, with a signal amplifier wired in to boost the strength. We can get about 25 TV channels, except at about 9.45 each evening when someone goes past on a motorbike and the picture momentarily freezes.