Pointing in paving stones

[RBailey]

Hi All,

Any thoughts / recommendations on re-pointing paving stones.


The "current" pointing is long gone with decent wide and deep gaps left.

My main question is, am I better having the stones "watertight" so water drains off (but there is limited / no fall away from the house), or is it better for water to drain between the stones?

My ideas are:

- Cement:
+ Easy, cheap, waterproof (so can run off), long lifespan, plant proof, jet washable.
- Non-breathable / non-draining, not flexible.

Modern "Epoxy" (https://www.everbuild.co.uk/product/sika-fastfix-weather/)
+ Easy, water proof, flexible, moderate / long lifespan, plant proof.
- Non-breathable / non-draining, expensive, not jet washable.

Sand (maybe with a sprinkle of portland cement?)
+ Easy, cheap, draining
- short lived, not plant proof, non jet washable

Any comments, suggestions, feedback or general abuse always welcomed.

Cheers,
Richard B.

 

[Flyfisher]

If there is limited or no fall away from the house then it would be generally better to allow water to drain between the paving.

I would avoid cement-based pointing; it's not always as permanent as wished, especially if the area is prone to frost, plus the drainage issue.

I've no experience of 'epoxy' type pointing but my instinct would be to pass on that option as well because of the potential drainage issues.

Based on my experience of a large area of clay pavers, I'd go with the sand option as it would meet your 'easy, cheap, draining' criteria and your assumed downsides will likely be less than you think.
1. 'Short-lived' is not really an issue when a quick brush over with new kiln-dried sand every two/three years is fairly trivial. Our 105m2 area takes around half an hour to brush over with new sand.
2. 'Not plant proof' can be minimised with chemical warfare or periodically pulling up anything that starts to grow.
3. 'Non jet washable' is not strictly true - yes, it will blow away some of the sand but see 1 above.

The other reason I'd go with the sand option is because it's the easiest and cheapest but more importantly is easily reversible if you decide to change your mind and won't damage your paving stones.

 

[RBailey]

Thanks for the sanity check, sand it will be

 

[Gothichome]

Were I am a crushed limestone screed would be brushed in. I have probably 18 meters of walkway done in pavers with no issues. The limestone does discourage weeds better than sand but I do keep on top of those weeds that do attempt a foothold. Very three years or so I just rescreed, every time I do I use less screed. On the other side of the coin, I can’t go to a local beach, bucket in hand to replenish for free.

 

[Abi Cott]

Were I am a crushed limestone screed would be brushed in. I have probably 18 meters of walkway done in pavers with no issues. The limestone does discourage weeds better than sand but I do keep on top of those weeds that do attempt a foothold. Very three years or so I just rescreed, every time I do I use less screed. On the other side of the coin, I can’t go to a local beach, bucket in hand to replenish for free.

Kiln dried sand! Damp sand is not fun and it should be sharp sand/river sand not soft/builders sand, though geologically most beach sand is sharp sand, unless you have a handy kiln available I'd steer clear, and bought sand is better sorted for grain size.
I've not come across crushed lime screed in the UK. Mind you I've never had large areas of paving to grout, so I'm only really familiar with what my employer sells (though I know it should be as dry as humanly possible). From a geological perspective I'd roughly expect sand to be cheaper and easier to apply but I can see crushed limestone having positives for reducing some weed growth. One will make the soil more acid, the other makes it more alkali. That could suggest that the underlying geology could have a role to play in which works best. Excuse my ramblings, geology is something I once studied so makes me go ooh.

 

[Flyfisher]

Yes, definitely kiln-dried sand, specially of the voids are large. Wet sand will not flow freely enough to fill the depths of any voids. It will look good when first done but will be washed down by the first rainfall leaving it looking like nothing has been done. Still, no harm done, just do it again, it’s just better to get it right first time. Oh, and for much the same reason, even if using kiln-dried sand, it’s much better to do the work on a dry day otherwise the excess sand will simply become damp/wet when sweeping it across the paving stones.

As for it being sharp or soft, I’ve always thought beach sand would be soft rather than sharp due to the constant wave action, ie all the grains being rounded, just like beach pebbles, which is why it flows so well when dry.

 

[Abi Cott]

If you want proper rounded sand you want a desert deposit. Beach sand is quite variable, but the easier to collect portions (higher up the beach) tend to be sharper grained. Shallow seas can also give a more rounded grain.
It's all about the "energy" of the environment. High energy doesn't deposit nice smooth lightweight sand grains, it carries them along dropping off the heavier, bigger and more angular ones. Once the energy of the water reduces the lighter, rounder grains settle out.

 

[Abecedarian]

Surely there are rules about pitching up at your local(est) beach and taking some of it home with you?
Just thinking out loud......

 

[Abi Cott]

If you did it with a JCB I would guess you'd get some objections

 

[a twig]

It is illegal to remove stones and sand from a beach, if you take a small bucket or two most will turn a blind eye, turn up with a trailer and council or plod will invariably turn up

 

[Flyfisher]

https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/sardinia-sand-theft-arrest-scli-intl/index.html

:shock: :shock: :shock: