Plumbing

[wobs]

I was told recently that there is to be a change in the regs regarding plumbers. That only registered plumbers will be able to work on household wet pipe work. Kind of like how the gas fitters and electricians have gone.

Does anyone know any details about this? Seems like another tax loop hole blocked and not much else.

 

[Gervase]

I've not heard of this, but it could be simply that work which would normally require building consent would be able to be signed off with a certificate of compliance by such a suitably qualified plumber.
It certainly wouldn't surprise me.

 

[middi]

I wonder if that " you cannot wipe your own backside " day will ever arrive, that should please a lot of people.

 

[Me!]

Sorry, I haven't heard of that one either. I can't believe they would be able to bring it in under the guise of safety like with the recent wiring changes? Mind you, there has probably been an official risk assessment done at vast tax payers expense that says there is a theoretical risk that somebody may drown some day from dodgy plumbing!

 

[Lime]

I wonder if that " you cannot wipe your own backside " day will ever arrive, that should please a lot of people.

That's how I feel about it too.

It's not as if this type of regulation actually ensures those that have the qualification are competent.

Recently a qualified Corgi installer plumbed in a gas multipoint water heater, sink and gas wall heater in my new extension.
I think a chimpanzee would have done no worse.
On three occasions I had to rip off the plaster covering the pipes he put in (very much to the annoyance of the "plasterers" or flat wall coverers with pink overworked-plaster) because the pipes were coming out of the wall in the wrong place.
I had to show him how to use the template
He told me in passing that if it wasn't for the length of hot water pipe to the bathroom the multipoint would explode (!?!) and that the gas burner pressure test point was for draining off the water in freezing weather!
(This is for real!)
As for plumbing in the sink (!) I had to totally remove and replace nearly everything he did.
The pipe to the drain outside went upwards through the wall so water filled the waste pipes all the time, both sinks' drain plug holes leaked and he hadn't put a trap on the waste disposal unit!
On top of that he had used welded waste pipe and it was under such tension and twist that after the first day both waste disposal unit and the other sink's waste were twisting from the vertical by about 10 degrees.

This is the work of a fully qualified fitter who installs gas appliances and works for the water board all the time.

I had a few choice words to say as you can imagine.
I have never seen such a bodge up in all my life and you don't know the half of it.
Compared to all the "profesionals" I have had in my house over the last few months I am a craftsman of the highest calibre and skill.

The whole business of regulation and paper qualifications is a farce and I include the building inspectors with that too.
Common sense, skill, experience, knowledge and understanding appear to be subordinate to paper qualifications and ticked boxes.

The laws and regulations we have in place now to "protect" us thrives on most peoples' ignorance of the most basic fundamentals of science.
Even the good installers think it madness.
It is all to do with money and paper pushing.

The sad part about all this now is that someone like myself is made a criminal if I do work that I have done competently for the last 45 years.

 

[Flyfisher]

It's not as if this type of regulation actually ensures those that have the qualification are competent.

Sad, but so true.

It's all madness. Trouble is the insurance companies, for one, will be first to hide behind such new laws.

 

[Moo]

We had a Corgi-registered plumber who was, I'm sure, illiterate. He was totally defeated both by the new-fangled loos we'd bought and by the water-softener that was to be plumbed in in the cellar. In both cases I had to read and explain the instruction leaflets to him.[/i]

 

[yoofookinwah]

Would Trading Standards be interested in this?

 

[111mart111]

Here's a good one.
I get a phone call at work on 30th Dec from the missus saying she's had a shock from the light switches and the taps ... wanting to check (feel?) this for myself - sure all the chrome switches, taps and water are carrying a current! (Lucky she didn't decide to jump straight into the bath or shower ... :shock: )
Anyway, 1 call out to a £85 per hour sparkie confirms what we thought: an earth problem, i.e. no continuity from the earth conductor to the TNS system - the earth was actually carrying a current rather than dissipating it to earth. Obviously rather worried we pay the chap a further £350 the next day to complete a safety test / periodic (to his credit he fixed all faults, and there were a lot mostly relating to incorrect wiring used by the original sparkie).
The point is that I looked up the original clown who did the original wiring in '05, and found him on the 'net:
http://icberkshire.icnetwork.co.uk/...30617&method=full&siteid=50102-name_page.html

the very same guy who did our wiring in '05!!! and signed it off with an official NICEIC form. And the company mentioned in the website is still trading. We've got his original official EIC bit of paper, that by right should have killed us off ... :evil:
And the crux of the joke (after a phone call to at least confirm this guy isn't trading under the EIC - he isn't) as we had his bodge repaired we cannot complain to anyone because the evidence has now 'gone' ... obviously we should've kept it like it was waiting for a EIC Regulation guy to check it out while frying everytime we took a shower .... arrggghhhh. Idiots.

 

[Aidan]

They were probably referring to ‘Approved Contractors’ as defined in the current Water Regulations. The requirements of the existing Water Regulations are summarised below and I’m not aware of any proposed changes (but I’ll have to check now).

A Water Regulations training course is offered by many training providers (the same companies that offer gas ACS, unvented water storage heater, Part P, etc. training). I think it is a one day course at present for an individual to get the ‘Approved Contractor’ certificate.

The current Water Supply (Water Fittings) Regulations 1999, Regulation 5 requires that the water supplier is to be notified of the installation of any water fitting listed in the attached table. Full details of the proposed installation are required. The most relevant clause is; “2. The extension or alteration of a water system on any premises other than a house.”

Work cannot be started without the consent of the water supplier and must comply with any conditions that they may impose. Unconditional consent is deemed to be granted by default if they fail to respond within 10 days.

The requirement to obtain the Water Supplier’s consent does not apply to Approved Contractors when they are making extensions or alterations to an existing system, installing a bidet with a flexible hose or ascending spray, etc..

The main relevance of the Approved Contractor is in commercial installations. The owners, occupiers and installers are responsible for ensuring the installation complies with the Water Regulations. A certificate of compliance, issued by an Approved Contractor, would be a defence in law for the building owners.

At present, no-one pays much attention to this legislation, except for commercial installers. Personally, I think it is a matter of time before there is a serious incident of water mains contamination in the UK, involving someone’s pond, septic tank, heating system, hot tub, etc., being back-siphoned into the mains supply, after which we can expect a sharp increase in legislation and enforcement. The traditional system (kitchen tap & loft storage tank) has some failings but it was fairly foolproof against mains contamination.

 

[Flyfisher]

And the crux of the joke (after a phone call to at least confirm this guy isn't trading under the EIC - he isn't) as we had his bodge repaired we cannot complain to anyone because the evidence has now 'gone' ... obviously we should've kept it like it was waiting for a EIC Regulation guy to check it out while frying everytime we took a shower .... arrggghhhh. Idiots.

Well, you have independent confirmation of the bodge by a (presumably) qualified professional, which should count for something. I believe it's standard practice in cases of any sort of botched work to be legally able to call in another supplier to rectify any unsatisfactory work and then sue the original contractor for the costs incurred. It might be necessary to give the original contractor the chance to correct the work first though, which obviously doesn't apply in your case.

Personally, I would ask the sparks who fixed the problem to write a brief report of the work he had to carry out to correct the faults (if it's not already stated on his invoice), then send a copy to the original cowboy asking him to pay your costs. No doubt he'll ignore the request but you could then follow it up with a small claims court action. Given his previous conviction I'd think you'd have a pretty good chance of judgement in your favour. No need to get solicitors involved, although you could if you wished; depends on how much more you want to spend up front - you're already about £450 out of pocket

Still, you're both safe and the problem is now fixed, which is the main thing.

 

[Aidan]

Recently a qualified Corgi installer plumbed in a gas multipoint water heater, sink and gas wall heater in my new extension.
I think a chimpanzee would have done no worse.

That is an outrageous slander; chimpanzees everywhere will be instructing their briefs


Corgi registration only certifies that they are safe to work with gas. It doesn't certify that they have any expertise in installing water supply systems or any knowledge of the ancilliary components of a heating system (zone valves, expansion vessels, pressure relief valves, etc.). As for water treatment, the less said the better. So, you could have your heating installed or amended by a Corgi installer. If you should find, let's say, that your pump fails and your radiators have corroded because he had failed to flush and treat the water, or had set up an expansion tank incorrectly, then Corgi would not be interested.

 

[Lime]

Recently a qualified Corgi installer plumbed in a gas multipoint water heater, sink and gas wall heater in my new extension.
I think a chimpanzee would have done no worse.

That is an outrageous slander; chimpanzees everywhere will be instructing their briefs

I hereby apologise to all chimpanzees throughout the world who have fitted gas appliances better than the man who installed mine.

Corgi registration only certifies that they are safe to work with gas. It doesn't certify that they have any expertise in installing water supply systems or any knowledge of the ancilliary components of a heating system (zone valves, expansion vessels, pressure relief valves, etc.). As for water treatment, the less said the better. So, you could have your heating installed or amended by a Corgi installer. If you should find, let's say, that your pump fails and your radiators have corroded because he had failed to flush and treat the water, or had set up an expansion tank incorrectly, then Corgi would not be interested.

Yes.
However when the Corgi registered gas installer mistakes gas test points for water drain points and believes the length of water pipe to and from a multipont increases the risk explosion it makes you think about the qualification's worth, doesn't it?

 

[Penners]

I employed the services of a Corgi installer once, but all he did was fit a gas fire for me.

Great disappointment. I was looking forward to walking the dog.

 

[111mart111]

[/quote]
Personally, I would ask the sparks who fixed the problem to write a brief report of the work he had to carry out to correct the faults (if it's not already stated on his invoice), then send a copy to the original cowboy asking him to pay your costs. No doubt he'll ignore the request but you could then follow it up with a small claims court action. Given his previous conviction I'd think you'd have a pretty good chance of judgement in your favour. No need to get solicitors involved, although you could if you wished; depends on how much more you want to spend up front - you're already about £450 out of pocket

Many thanks for your suggestion Flyfisher, I wrote to the clown spark and he actually agreed to pay for the remedial works!!! I am surprised - mind you I did threaten to involve the NICEIC and small claims court and he came good ... anyone in the Staines area coming out to celebrate with a pint tonight??!

 

[Flyfisher]

Excellent news - sort of restores one's faith in human nature. Well almost :wink:

 

[NT]

I wonder if that " you cannot wipe your own backside " day will ever arrive, that should please a lot of people.

The sad part about all this now is that someone like myself is made a criminal if I do work that I have done competently for the last 45 years.

Whereas those with little competence or honesty are doing it legally day in day out. And the law requires that they do it not you! Blair + co sure knows how to make an ass of the law.


NT

 

[Penners]

anyone in the Staines area coming out to celebrate with a pint tonight??!

Well, you're about 80 miles away, but if you're buying....