Plumbing and new Radiators

[Jezzaaa]

Hi all,

Me again! We're further down the line with the purchase of our beautiful Suffolk house. And my wife and I are starting to think about stuff we need to do to improve things.

One of the things we can't quite understand is the heating and radiators. A fairly new oil fired heating system has been installed in 2014, with radiators in every room...except one. It happens to be the only room in the house where there are clear signs of previous infestations in the timbers. So one of the first things on our list is to get a plumber in and to add a proper radiator to that room. We're wondering why the current owner hasn't done it before...and I'm worried that there's probably a good reason for it.

Would you need LBCs to install new pipes and radiator? If so I guess it's possible that the current owner either couldn't be bothered or got turned down.

I know what you're thinking...just ask him! But he's a bit of a funny old fellow and we're waiting to meet him face to face before doing so.

Ta,
J.

 

[MatthewC]

Hi Jeezaa

I think I would check with your local authority about previous planning/LBC applications and approvals to see if anything was legal/illegal.

Personally I would just fit the radiator that you want without asking anyone; however, you could be right and there might be a fundamental reason why it was too difficult. However, if that room has previous infestations then it must have been damp - is it still damp? If so, sort out the source of that, as a radiator would only address the symptom.

Matthew

 

[Jezzaaa]

Hi Jeezaa

I think I would check with your local authority about previous planning/LBC applications and approvals to see if anything was legal/illegal.

Personally I would just fit the radiator that you want without asking anyone; however, you could be right and there might be a fundamental reason why it was too difficult. However, if that room has previous infestations then it must have been damp - is it still damp? If so, sort out the source of that, as a radiator would only address the symptom.

Matthew

Hi Matthew,

Thanks so much for your reply. The timbers in that room don't look or smell damp. I have very little knowledge/experience of these things though.

We wondered if the reason it was or used to be damp (and therefore attractive to the beetle) was because that particular room had never been regularly heated...thus we were hoping to address the cause by installing a radiator and making sure the timbers moisture levels are reduced so that the beetle doesn't find it a suitable habitat. None of the other rooms show any signs of infestation, although all the other room's timbers are black (presumably treated) where as, in this particular room, the wood is the natural colour, but eaten away. The current owner told us that the beams in this room had been 'shot blasted to within an inch of it's life' (his words). So it's a concern for us, especially as the bedroom above is the only upstairs room where the flooring moves about when you step on it!

A buildings survey is being carried out on Monday, and I've pointed this out to the surveyor...he's going to have a proper look at that room above and below.

I'll let you know what happens....thanks again

J.

 

[Penners]

there are clear signs of previous infestations in the timbers.

Timber infestations are a bit like investments. Past performance is not necessarily an indication of current or future performance.

That's my rather flippant way of asking whether you're certain that the infestation is still active. Old oak beams often show signs of infestation, particularly if their outer surface is sapwood, but the little critters tend not to go deep into heartwood. You may see lots of holes (about 2mm dia. for woodworm, larger for deathwatch beetle), but the infestation may have died out some time ago.

There are several ways of checking this. First, look for signs of fresh mini dust piles on horizontal surfaces under the holes (this is called "frass"). Next, try pasting some tissue paper tightly over several of the infested areas. If the infestation is still active, when spring/summer comes (usually between May and August) you should see little holes appear in the tissue paper, where the beetles have emerged from the timber and flown.

Drying out the timber is the best long-term solution, so your idea of having a radiator in the room seems sensible. However, don't expect it to have a quick effect. It could take a long time to get the moisture content of the beams down below 14% (the ideal content below which woodworm and deathwatch will not thrive - at 12% the larvae usually die).

I suggest you ask your surveyor to check the moisture content of the timber. If it is high, ask him/her about the advisability of running a dehumidifier in the room long-term, as well as installing a radiator. Just be careful not to be over-enthusiastic with a dehumidifier, though - excessive dehumidification can be deleterious to the structure. So take it gently.

But, as I said, your first thoughts should be directed towards checking whether the infestation is still active.

 

[Jezzaaa]

Hi Penners!

Thanks for your reply. I've actually had the report from the building survey through since I started this thread. There are no signs of a current infestation. I pointed out the lack of a radiator in that room before he went to site, and he said he found some pipe stubs sticking up from the floor in that room. Which is very curious...why would they have removed a radiator that was already there??

Anyway, thanks again for all the advice.

J.

 

[Penners]

I suppose it's conceivable that there was a radiator which got clogged up, and they (whoever "they" were!) never bothered to replace it - maybe to save money on heating a room that was rarely used. But that is, of course, complete speculation. Having bought several period properties in my life, I long ago gave up trying to understand what some people do to their houses!

If the pipe stubs are just that - open pipe ends with no valves attached - I wonder how those pipes have been isolated from the rest of the central heating circuit. You might want to investigate this before you simply attach a new rad. Either the pipes have been completely detached from the circuit, or there are gate valves somewhere.

 

[Jezzaaa]

I suppose it's conceivable that there was a radiator which got clogged up, and they (whoever "they" were!) never bothered to replace it - maybe to save money on heating a room that was rarely used. But that is, of course, complete speculation. Having bought several period properties in my life, I long ago gave up trying to understand what some people do to their houses!

If the pipe stubs are just that - open pipe ends with no valves attached - I wonder how those pipes have been isolated from the rest of the central heating circuit. You might want to investigate this before you simply attach a new rad. Either the pipes have been completely detached from the circuit, or there are gate valves somewhere.

Hi again

Yes, I had similar thoughts. Thankfully, the pipe stubs are capped off, so they may still be attached to the heating circuit. We will check before opening them up (I guess the stubbs will get warm with the heating's on if they're connected). The other thing is that the pipes come up in the wrong place (i.e. not under a window) so we may ask the plumber what the best course of action is. Either way, we intend to use that room so all efforts to get it on the central system will be made.

Cheers,
J.

 

[Penners]

I guess the stubbs will get warm with the heating's on if they're connected

Hmmm... I suspect the answer to that is - not necessarily. Even if there is still water in the capped off pipes, they won't have any flow in them. So if they are a spur off the main circuit, and are some distance from that circuit, the heat may not reach them. It's impossible to be sure.

I'm just saying, if there's no detectable warmth in the pipes, don't automatically assume that they're dry!

 

[malcolm]

It might be the previous owners wanted to put some furniture where the radiator was and it was in the way.

I found some capped off radiator pipes in the kitchen where a radiator had been removed. I checked they were still connected to the system and fitted a radiator. It worked, but unfortunately the pipes were from the upstairs heating zone so the radiator only gets hot when there is nobody downstairs to enjoy it.

 

[Jezzaaa]

Thanks guys...very good points, both.

We're a few weeks away from completion, but it'll be the first thing to be investigated!

 

[MatthewC]

I suppose it's conceivable that there was a radiator which got clogged up, and they (whoever "they" were!) never bothered to replace it.... I long ago gave up trying to understand what some people do to their houses!

Or they even fitted the pipes but never got around to actually installing the radiator? Possibly the pipes were in the wrong place and, the day before moving in, they said "we'll do it later". As you say, who knows why people did things that now seem odd?