Please help us get in and out of this porch

[JoceAndChris]

Locking up is a lengthy process involving shutting and locking the porch doors from the inside and then exiting via the back door, which involves 2 staircases and 2 more doors to lock, not to mention all the shutter bars on the windows. Then when you get out you realise you've forgotten something and have to do it all over! We're thinking espagnolette bolts on the inner doors in the porch might be the solution. The one we like is around £400 though, from the Bath Knob Shop. Any advice on this is gratefully appreciated, particularly with regard to what might be appropriate.

Note the doors and windows were rebuilt by the previous owner- as the original diamond panes are in our workshop I'd like to get a more authentic job done at some point, reusing these.

Here you see the original inner set of doors, note there is no working, accessible lock when you come in the porch.

Here's the porch from the inside, see how the nasty modern lock on those front doors is rather flimsy?

So this is how we increase security, by pulling across this great iron bar, (which I suspect was made by the previous owner, who was a metal worker.) Here's how it looks bolted up; you've seen this one before.

 

[Lime]

I'm not going to make myself popular but I don't think that there is a good, simple and secure method to lock double doors.
By their construction double doors locked in the centre are always weak.
Inward opening is a weakness too.
The entire top of the doors filled with glass makes them very weak indeed.
Then to make things worse, both sides of the first pair of doors only have half walls supporting them and nothing at the top to get a secure lock to adhere to.
Imagine you are a burglar, how much force would it take to break in?
Fitting a metal bar across the doors is perhaps the most secure method you can use.
The bar or bars (two is better than one) should be fixed to the door opening and not the doors themselves.
(Unlike the picture )
Otherwise the strain is taken by the hinges and pushing double doors open with the centre held together by the lock/s creates a pull on the screws holding the hinges.
At present the porch is lockable but it would not take much time to break in as the crucial bolts (top and bottom) give little support to the central door lock.
A good push in the middle of the doors, the doors would give enough for the central lock to separate and a burglar would be in.
Then the porch would act as a convenient shelter for any extra noise made breaking into the interior.

 

[biffvernon]

I know you're down in the south of Lincolnshire, where things are a bit unruly, but there are not so very many burglars about, even there.
Ok, so we have this little ritual of locking the door behind us when we go out, (plenty don't bother with even that) but I'm pretty sure no burglar has ever tried the door handle. A serious burglar would not, of course, be deterred by a mere five lever lock no matter how many kitemarks it had engraved on it's hardened steel whatsit, and leaving the door open means much less damage to the windows.

Let us dispel paranoia. I have a theory that if everyone stopped locking the door the crime rate would not rise. Maybe it's all a cunning plot by the locksmith's trade.

 

[JoceAndChris]

I agree Lime. The security is rubbish. Thanks for your post.

It's back to the two big dogs isn't it? (no progress on those with dog-hating husband. )

Just been on the phone to tBKS, they said their espagnolettes are flimsy things and having seen the photos he recommends I have a deadlock fitted to those inner doors (which would necessitate removing the iron bar).

But maybe what I should be doing is removing that iron bar and having one made that would match Lime's advice, and continuing with my jog round the house to get in and out.

 

[Pford75]

Let us dispel paranoia. I have a theory that if everyone stopped locking the door the crime rate would not rise. Maybe it's all a cunning plot by the locksmith's trade

Maybe you are right....but if you are one of the unlucky ones to be burgled and you didn't even lock the doors, the insurance company will not pay out. Similarly, if your insurance specifies a certain standard of lock and you don't have it, they will try to wriggle out as well.

 

[Lime]

But maybe what I should be doing is removing that iron bar and having one made that would match Lime's advice, and continuing with my jog round the house to get in and out.

When having the new bar made think about how the extra length is going to be accommodated.
Extending the metal fixings on the door opening (perhaps 12 inches both up and down rather than the 2 inches at present) would strengthen them to take thrust and spread the stress of force over more wood and screws. (Coach bolts would be better suitably strengthened on the outside of the door opening too)
You need to ensure the door opening is fixed solidly.
Far too many door openings only have a couple of nails or screws holding the entire unit in place.
Also a lock (padlock) on the bar would increase security.

 

[JoceAndChris]

There was a burglary here a few years ago. The burglars accessed the house through the little lower window.

This is how the previous owner improved its security:

The whole bar structure lifts upwards and is secured by that tiny hook at the very top of the photo. A visting historic buildings expert described it as one of the worst and potentially lethal improvements in home security he had ever seen. He wouldn't even go near it, in case it crashed on his head!

I would like to think you're right Biff, but the problem with this lonely hilltop is that once a mischief maker has found it there is generally nobody within earshot to deter them from doing whatever they like. As the house is becoming increasingly visible from the town (through our gardening efforts) I feel increasingly vulnerable.

Security has got to be improved somehow, but without trashing that whole glass porch arrangement.

Thanks for all your thoughts on this.

PS Any burglars reading this, we've nothing worth nicking.

 

[Jon Maine]

You could put a pair of wrought iron doors over the existing inner pair which could look quite attractive if done well and be easier to secure.

One major problem I have noticed is that if you make something secure, and look secure it appears to be sending a message that you have something inside worth stealing.

Tricky one really

 

[JoceAndChris]

You could put a pair of wrought iron doors over the existing inner pair

An interesting idea, and one I hadn't considered at all.

I know it sounds mad and I flatter myself but when I'm inside I worry more about rape n' murder than burglary.

I used to get followed home a fair bit in London, and some bad things happened.

But this isn't London, maybe I should just go and get some Valium.

 

[Jon Maine]

So are they real diminishing coursed stone slates on the roof?

 

[Lime]

when I'm inside I worry more about rape n' murder than burglary.

Worry about fire as well.
Too many people never give it a second thought when making security arrangements and sealed exits could cost much more than a burglary.

 

[AMc]

Why are you using the front door in the country, is the Queen coming to tea?
Only the postman uses ours, we tend not to want to carry the 5" iron key with us when we are out and about, it wears holes in your trousers

I would second Limes comments about fire, don't lock yourself in so well that you can't get out - a fire is more probable than a random axe murderer.

We moved to Norfolk from Hackney. It took a long time to get out of the fortress mentality we'd adopted there after the front door was opened in the early hours the burglar fleeing when the alarm beeped. However, In London and here I take the view that a burglar who wants to get in will, the locks are there to make the next place look easier to rob than this one and to deter the opportunist who tries the bell, then the door.

Having accidentally left my car unlocked for 2 weeks in E8 I was amazed to discover it untouched. A small number of thieves make a big impact and I think it's too easy to get worried.

If you're genuinely concerned I'd get the local crime prevention officer to come and take a look.

 

[biffvernon]

the house is becoming increasingly visible from the town (through our gardening efforts) I feel increasingly vulnerable.

You've done it, haven't you. You've cut down the conifers. Now you're worried the town can see you. Never let the town see you.

Oh the tyranny! We are blackmailed by the conspiracy of locksmiths and insurers. These creatures take more than the burglars. Stand up, stand firm, reclaim Peace of Mind.

 

[biffvernon]

If you're genuinely concerned I'd get the local crime prevention officer to come and take a look.

An excellent post - untill that last line. The Crime Prevention Officers are in league with the confederation of locksmiths, burglars and insurers. Prevent crime? Ha! They'd be out of a job. They will tell you to invest in CCTV and razorwire.

 

[Feltwell]

I take the view that a burglar who wants to get in will, the locks are there to make the next place look easier to rob than this one and to deter the opportunist who tries the bell, then the door.

I agree. My in-laws ran a domestic security business (alarms and monitoring) for many years until they retired, in a part of Cheshire with many posh & expensive houses (half of Manchester United lives in that area.. :roll: )

My father-in-law always maintained that if someone wants to get in your house, they will. You won't stop them. The trick is making it appear difficult enough that they don't bother with your place and carry onto the next - thieving scumbags by definition will go for the easy option - or making it such that they are afraid that they are likely to be caught if they try.

Working "in the trade" he did see a lot of domestic burglaries, and it cured me of my slightly carefree attitude to locking up.

Not making your house feel like a prison is so important though, as is being able to get out in the event of a fire, as someone else has said. Never lock internal doors either, if someone does get in they will just kick them through and cause more damage.

 

[Lime]

I was once an active Neighbourhood watch coordinator so have seen many different types of security and inhabitant attitude.
I can never quite understand the concern for a strong locked frontdoor when the backdoor is poorly maintained and often not locked.
However I decided that trying to make my neighbours more secure was counterproductive to my security so stopped bothering.
It stands to reason that if my home is locked and reasonably secure a neighbour's house with windows open, doors not locked and generally poor security is going to attract the burglar much more than my house and I'm happy with that.

The internal door argument, whether to lock or not, very much depends on whether you are in the house or not at the time of the burglary.
Personally I like to make my house as difficult as possible for someone entering it.
kicking down or through a door in my house would cause the burglar to leave a lot of DNA all over the place too.
Every locked door (stout, well fitted and securely locked) takes time from the burglar and gives it to me.
The argument about damage pales into insignificance when I have furniture and possessions I wish to protect... as well as myself and family of course.

The first thing nearly all burglars do when they first enter a property is to make a second escape route.
In my house that would take them quite a while to do.
I'm not saying it couldn't be done, but burgling my house would be bloody hard work from start to finish if they didn't wish to get caught.

 

[Jon Maine]

The first thing nearly all burglars do when they first enter a property is to make a second escape route.

Sounds like a voice of experience :shock:

I had not considered that but if I were to apply myself to ill gains I am sure that's what I would do... not that I will :wink:

 

[JoceAndChris]

So are they real diminishing coursed stone slates on the roof?

Uh? Sorry Jon, you got a bit technical there for my (very limited) understanding of rooves.

Worry about fire as well.

OK, I will.

The kitchen locks present problems too, here is the exterior door with another flimsy lock:

And I'm sorry we cut a cat shaped hole in this, it was before we became PUKers.

You've done it, haven't you. You've cut down the conifers. Now you're worried the town can see you.

Um, yes. And you're right about the crime prevention officer too. He wanted everything changed and us to instal a £1500 system of burglar alarms.

Anyway, thanks all for your kind and sympathising thoughts, it's great to have folk who will listen to me moaning on about my locks.

 

[Moo]

What, exactly, does your misguided husband have against a couple of large dogs? Or, as an alternative, one small yappy dog to sound the alarm and a great big one to provide the muscle.

I still think that he'd change his mind were you to foster (temporarily, you understand, just to help a friend/acquaintance/good cause) a couple of appealing house-trained pups.

 

[Feltwell]

Exactly how fast was the cat going when it got to the door and realised there was no catflap?????