PLastering v lining

[Krhos123]

I live in a Georgian flat which is 200 years old. In the hall the walls and ceiling are pretty bad and there is a mixture of plasterboard badly merged with old together with other bodged bits.

In other rooms I have had the walls and ceiling lined and painted and they turned out fine. They were in better condition. I am not averse to a few lumps and bumps here and there.

What are opinions on plaster skimming a wall in an old house. Should this be done and can it be painted directly over or does it have to be lined as well? I have seen it done in a victorian house and the finish was good. Should I be asking what type of plaster they will use? Normally I would just have lining paper but I do not think the finish will be very good as there is too much filling needing done.

 

[Lady_Mari]

In the Victorian terrace I used to live in the walls were so bad after removing the woodchip that I had them cross lined. That is: heavy duty lining paper put on horizontally round the walls, then a lighter weight paper on top vertically. The joins & corners were filled (caulk) & I then painted with a flat emulsion & quite frankly, you would think they had been plastered - they looked that good.
Just done the ceiling in my kitchen, same method, after removing 'orrible Artex & the result is excellent.

 

[john.s]

That's interesting - I am fixing up my living room (1920's) and both the walls and ceiling are pretty bad. I have stripped them of their wood chip paper, and while the walls have the potential to be patched up and lined, I am concerned that the ceiling is too bad and will need skimming. Aside from moderate irregularities, layers of paint etc, it has cracks almost following every joist, and at these cracks the ceiling is not level so no amount of paper will really cover it up.
Does anyone have similar experienc? Could I dig out all the cracks and then fill before papering?
I am thinking to screw the ceiling plaster onto the joists to stop any further dropping which ever line of action I end up taking.
Does anyone know how much a 3.5x5m ceiling costs to skim?
Thanks,

 

[Gervase]

A rough price for skimming with pink gypsum is £17 a square metre. Using this over lime is not a good idea, however. The cracks will simply open up again. If the skim is over earlier gypsum plaster, then scrim tape over the cracks and then skim.
If the cracks are in dead straight lines it sounds as though the ceiling has been boarded at some stage, in which case it might be possible to screw the boards back tight to the joists with large washers, then scrim tape and skim.

 

[john.s]

Thanks for the info - I'm afraid all the plaster in the house is a hard yellow ish colored stuff - I'm presuming lime?
I used to know someone who had just started plastering, so I am currently trying to get a hold of them.

 

[BMcD]

I suppose it comes down to whether you get a decorator in, you DIY and are confident at decorating or you DIY and are not confident at decorating. The 2x former questions should allow you to line as suggested by Lady_Mari, it will also retain any original plasterwork in place. The latter may require skimming and as Gervase says, gypsum over lime is never a good idea, although it is often done!

john.s wrote:

Aside from moderate irregularities, layers of paint etc, it has cracks almost following every joist, and at these cracks the ceiling is not level so no amount of paper will really cover it up

If it's plasterboard then you'd be better off re-boarding the ceiling and getting it skimmed on new boards (about £300.00 - £400.00 all in)

Could I dig out all the cracks and then fill before papering?

Yes

Krhos123 wrote:

I live in a Georgian flat which is 200 years old. In the hall the walls and ceiling are pretty bad and there is a mixture of plasterboard badly merged with old together with other bodged bits.

Where to start? If the plaster board work is not flush with the original but is below original level then it should be possible to build it up level(ish) with the original, this may mean chopping back the original slightly to get rid of the "kick" in the plaster, where it butted up against a door frame for instance. If however the plasterboard work is proud of the original work then you could remove it and replace with, preferably sand/lime (lath work) or more plaster board and then build up the plaster until the finished work is level with the original. As for the bodged bits, dig them out and patch them up properly.

Krhos123 wrote:

What are opinions on plaster skimming a wall in an old house.

It really depends on who you get round. Most of the plasterers who you 'phone up out of the paper or telephone directory will tell you that it's fine to PVA the walls and skim with Thistle Multi-finish or similar. This is very common practice but not necessarily best practice. Gypsum based plaster is harder and more brittle than lime based and when gypsum is skimmed over lime it is rather like icing on a cake (a hardshell covering a soft base) and will crack. You can skim over with lime as long as it's prepared correctly but if you can get away with not, then don't, keep the original.

 

[john.s]

I have been using a plaster called one coat, from Wickes, for smallish repairs and so on. It sets quite soft - it's rather like a giant bag of pollyfilla - you can even sand it. Has anyone any thoughts about the suitability of this for skimming a lime ceiling? It's white, and a bit pricey at £6 or so a 25kg bag I think. But it does seem softer than the usual stuff.
I don't think my skills are sufficient to plaster the ceiling with it, although I have done small walls succesfully, albeit rather slowly.

 

[Nigel Watts]

I am against skimming. Adding an extra thickness of plaster changes the relationship of the wall/ceiling to the cornice/skirting. I prefer to fill or line. In my living room the celing, though sound, is pretty rough and uneven. I have simply distempered it after filling the larger cracks. The effect is perfecty acceptable. Noone expects the plaster in a 200 year old house to be perfect.

 

[MdB]

Noone expects the plaster in a 200 year old house to be perfect.

When we get my plasterer mate in to do the new walls we are going to put up we are debating on the best method of stopping him from producing a perfectly flat show house quality finish. A blindfold was suggested but my favorite is just to get him completely drunk before setting him to work. I might even put the base coat on myself but that might be taking things too far knowing my complete inability to plaster.

 

[john.s]

Pardon my ignorance - but when you say you distempered the ceiling, what precisely do you mean?

 

[Mark]

He dissed it by calling it rough, and it got a bit of a temper on as a result.


OK - He painted it using distemper - which is a lime based 'paint'

 

[Nigel Watts]

I make my own distemper, but it can be bought. Distemper is a traditional treatment especially for celings and was ubiquitous until the introduction of modern emulsion paints in the 1960s.

There are a number of recipes. For white distemper soak some whiting (powdered chalk) in water, preferably overnight. Make a size with rabbit skin glue. This comes in the form of dried flakes or granuals and behaves like the kind of gelatine used in cooking It is obtainable from good artists suppliers (it is used to size canvas for oil painting).

You soak the flakes in some water, then after an hour or so warm it up gently to melt, adding additional water as needed. The soaked whiting and size are then combined. The whole lot needs to be kept warm as you are applying it (by periodic reheatings) otherwise it jellifies.

I dont measure the quantities. I just make them up as I go along. This is probably not good practice but the results are OK

Advantages of distemper are:
- beautiful ultra matt finish with none of that slight plasticy sheen of matt emulsion
- completely removeable by washing with warm water. This makes it especially friendly for cornices which can then been cleaned out after getting clogged up over the years
- is quite thick, so tends to fill small blemishes
- friendly to the envirnment (if not rabbits)
Disadvatages are:
- not as durable on walls which get a lot of wear and tear
- difficult to get as smooth a finish as that obtained with emulsion and a roller (at least I have not found out how - mine temds to show signs of brush marks)
- irritating for people who dont understand its advantages and want to paper or put modern paint on top (it has to be washed of first or sealed)

 

[biffvernon]

Just a matter of taste, but I rather like the texture of brush marks. If you brush up and down and side to side, with a fairly coarse brush, you get a cloth-like pattern. Nicer than the blobs left by a roller IMHO.

 

[Ian Bond]

Nigel,

Did you have to remove any modern emulsion from the ceiling before distempering, or were you going over existing limewash or distemper?

Thanks for the distemper recipe, very useful and (probably) a lot cheaper than buying ready made stuff.

Ian

 

[Nigel Watts]

Ian

My ceilings and cornice were free of emulsion and had been cleaned back to the plaster. The only problem I can forsee with trying to distemper onto emulsion is that the emulsion, being bound with a synthetic plastic polymer, may not like having a purely water based size applied on top.

Nigel

 

[Ian Bond]

Thanks Nigel, I thought that might be the case.

I will use limewash for the ceilings, but have some reservations about the walls - dusting and rubbing off on clothes would not be good. If despite my efforts this happens, my next choice is distemper, it sound like an excellent finish.

 

[Taff in Glaws]

Hi Gervase you gave a going price 4 skimming with gypsum, What's average prices for lime work? I've got rooms and walls in various states of repair varying from a skim finish to some surfaces where the wall needs rendering over red brick then skimming in keeping with the rest of the room.

 

[Gervase]

It's tricky to give a 'one size fits all" price for limework, as a lot depends on the state of the substrate - on how much the wall needs dubbing out and consolidating and what sort of finish; three-coat, coat-and-a-half and the like.
But, as a very rough figure, you're looking at around £35 a square meter; less for just a skim coat.

 

[Lady_Mari]

Just got my bill for lime rendering onto laths in my sitting room (14 m2) - I am in shock!

 

[Taff in Glaws]

Thanks Gervase, I appreciate that there's no simple answer but that is helpful to know.