Plaster ceiling design

[Greg]

Hi there
This is my first post, although I have been silently impressed with the wealth of wisdom on here for a while!
We are in the process of buying a turn-of-century Victorian/Edwardian (?) terrace in bristol, and this is the ceiling in the downstairs front room. As I have little experience, could anyone advise as to its originality? I have seen nothing similar before so am guessing that it may be original only to the 1970s!
Any help/opinions would be most welcome.

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Thanks,
Greg

 

[JoceAndChris]

Oooh tricky. Is it Lincrusta? (in which case it might be original?)


http://www.lincrusta.com/TheLincrustaCollection_Product.Asp?CollectionName=Wallcoverings


I'm not sure, but welcome to the forum Greg!

 

[Flyfisher]

Welcome to the forum.

I can't really offer much help, except to say it looks a lot better than the 'spiky artex' that seemed quite popular in the 70s.

 

[JoceAndChris]

I quite like it too, I'd keep it.

 

[chuckey]

The cornice looks original. Its nice to see that who ever fitted the light fitting managed to avoid the centre of a moulding. Never seen anything like that on any Victorian house or any house what so ever. I suspect its Anaglypta hiding a cracked lath and plaster ceiling. its well done though, but a b****r to repaint.
Frank

 

[Penners]

I'm no kind of expert on Lincrusta or Anaglypta, but that's a very deep moulding to be either of those, isn't it?

Greg* - does it feel/sound like plaster to the touch/tap?




*PS: Welcome!

 

[worms]

Its nice to see that who ever fitted the light fitting managed to avoid the centre of a moulding

Although the ceiling design somehow doesn't look original to me, the off-centre (eccentric?) light fitting may actually offer a clue to the originality of the ceiling. I've seen other examples where the original gas light fitting meant that when it was re-configured for electricity the wires had to come in off-centre. If there is any evidence of earlier fittings through the plaster, then chances are it was an original design feature.

 

[Feltwell]

A few points occur to me...

- The cornice is extremely similar to my house (1899)
- The ceiling pattern just looks far too heavy compared to the cornice
- No ceiling rose at all? OK, I appreciate the point about an old gas light, but to do all that decoration with nothing special surrounding the dominant fature of any ceiling, the light fitting, seems odd. That's presuming of course that any gas lamp was ceiling mounted, and not just wall mounted only.

On a purely personal note - I don't like it, at all. Nice cornice, and you don't need to have a plain ceiling (mine have a heavy relief paper on them - might not be original but is certainly "of the period"). It's just too heavy and "busy" a pattern. However, this is personal taste, and in that there are no rights or wrongs.

OK, Peter Stringfellow is an exception. As are personalised number plates. Reality television shows. Old women who hold umbrellas so the sharp pointy bits are just at my eye level. Ant & Dec. Any kind of Abba tribute. Jim Davidson. Those Halifax adverts with the fake radio station. Am I starting to sound like a grumpy old git now?

 

[worms]

OK, Peter Stringfellow is an exception. As are personalised number plates. Reality television shows. Old women who hold umbrellas so the sharp pointy bits are just at my eye level. Ant & Dec. Any kind of Abba tribute. Jim Davidson. Those Halifax adverts with the fake radio station. Am I starting to sound like a grumpy old git now?

This could develop into a whole new thread!

 

[Moo]

What a good idea!

 

[d49xc]

I have something similar....
(sorry about the image size/width)

This is a 1960 (precise date) fittment.
The walls are lincrusta.
The ceiling is made up of tiles approx 24" by 24".
Each is glued to the ceiling - which itself is lath and plaster itself put up in 1930.
Where the tiles did not quite butt up against each other the gap have been skillfully filled/smoothed.
It looks exactly like a genuine plaster ceiling: and rather nice it is too.
What the ceiling panel are made of is interesting - though I can only see where the light fitting goes through the tiles.

They appear to have an outer shell which looks like plaster but is not and might actually be something like pape mache. The bulk of the "moulding" is infill of something like cotton waste/wood fibre. Obviously I have no idea what the back it looks like or is.
I guess all this makes the tiles light to handle and more importantly easy to stick to the ceiling.

Actually I have have problem with all of this as the weight of the tiles is causing the plaster behind to pull away from the laths meaning that the ceiling is sagging as a whole - and has been from the last 40 years: so presumably is unlikely to come down anytime soon... Someday in the future I will have to take off the panels with a view to taking moulds and recasting them in something light (? jesmonite), fix the problems with the lath/plaster ceiling behind and then refix the lot: you can see why this job has never been done!
(As I recall the NT property Chastleton manor had the same problem with heavy true plaster ceiling tiles coming way from the lath/plaster base behind)
The bolt you see of far RHS of picture is one of those holding the ceiling up and in place.

 

[Greg]

Thanks everyone for the warm welcome and all the responses.

I'm inclined to agree that it's not in keeping with the cornice, and with a lack of ceiling rose etc it is presumably a far later addition. I will endeavour to get a closer look/touch & report back. I may try the neighbours either side to see a) What the ceiling should look like! or b) Whether someone did a job lot of this plasterwork in the '60s!

I actually quite like it, although the thought of removing it and possibly the entirety of whatever lurks beneath may be swaying my opinion...

 

[Moo]

On a list of Things To Do I suggest you put it somewhere near the bottom, but before the "do expensive things to the floor and/or lay posh carpet" bit.

 

[Feltwell]

Actually I have have problem with all of this as the weight of the tiles is causing the plaster behind to pull away from the laths meaning that the ceiling is sagging as a whole - and has been from the last 40 years: so presumably is unlikely to come down anytime soon... Someday in the future I will have to take off the panels with a view to taking moulds and recasting them in something light (? jesmonite), fix the problems with the lath/plaster ceiling behind and then refix the lot: you can see why this job has never been done!

It is possible to cure a saggy ceiling, without replacement. Several people on here have used screws and penny washers to re-attach the ceiling to the joists above, burying the screws & washers in the plaster then making good with filler.

Alternatively, I have heard that if your laths are still securely attached to the joists and it is the plaster coming away from the laths that is the problem, you can prop the ceiling up from below (scaffold planks & acros or any other method of support) and pour plaster of paris from above, thereby sticking the original plaster back to the laths. Not tried it myself but the theory seems sound enough.

 

[d49xc]

Indeed, I have been using screws and large washers to do precisely that: screw the ceiling back up into the joists.
It has been reasonably successful and has stablised the bit I've done.
Previously another section of the room was done in a similiar fashion in the mid 1960's - which means the ceiling must have started coming adrift only a few years after the panels were installed (1960): and the bit they did seems not to have moved in the last 40 odd years.......... and I've lived here since the late 1960's
Talking to the people at Chastelton House as I mentioned before - they were using similar techniques. As I recall they told me they were also threading wire through the plaster tiles and then tying the wire back to the ceiling joists. They had easy access to the roof void. It was a domed ceiling and you could almost walk around the 'back' of the dome.

Access from 'up top' in my case is not really possible: it is part covered by a bathroom and part by an inacessible roof void. (inaccessible to humans that is - air can circulate).
From what little I have seen under the floorboards it is indeed the plaster coming away from the laths which themselves are OK.
I'm working on the basis that it will last another 40 years.... or maybe one day there will be an enormous crash and the whole lot will let go at once - preferably not just now as I'm sitting here under it typing this!

As to the OP with their original question I would indeed proceed with caution as to what horror has been hidden behind the ceiling tiles and would now come to light with their removal if they go down that path.

 

[Feltwell]

Access from 'up top' in my case is not really possible: it is part covered by a bathroom and part by an inacessible roof void. (inaccessible to humans that is - air can circulate).
From what little I have seen under the floorboards it is indeed the plaster coming away from the laths which themselves are OK.

If the plaster of paris option is a possible then, can you get enough access into the "hard to get at" bits to funnel in the plaster?

I've used a cut-up traffic cone for grouting bridge bearings - could you pour runny plaster of paris down a piece of plastic guttering poked into the void? Just a thought!