Planning/Conservation and Licensing

[MatthewC]

I have reported a few issues previously about planning and conservation with regard to the renovation of my house. (See http://houseintheenchantedforest.blogspot.com/ for examples.) I've now got a new one:

A new community centre has been built at the back of my house, and they are applying for a licence for alcohol, dancing and music until midnight EVERY night, with an extension to 2.00am on Friday and Saturday nights. Even though this entire place is residential and a Conservation Area, it seems that potential noise was not a consideration in the Planning Permission (which was granted before I bought this place). I doubt that they will use this licence fully as I think they are just trying it on to be able to maximise possible use of the centre in order to increase their income.

I shall be objecting to this on the grounds of nuisance, but do I actually have any extra rights being in a listed building in a Conservation Area? I cannot even fit double glazing!

I understand that even one objection takes it to a hearing but what happens at that? Do I have the right to say anything, or is it based just on my written objection?

 

[Feltwell]

Very, very amateur view.....

I can see why they want an "every night" licence, but could it not be restricted by the licence to only a certain number of nights per month/year? That would seem reasnoble for what after all is a community centre, not a pub/nightclub.

2am seems a bit excessive as well, I would have thought midnight would be enough with an application for an extension as and when required.

I'm presuming you'll go for a constructive, "suggesting of what is reasnoble" style of objection rather than a blanket "it will be a noise nuisance".

As to if Listed/Conservation makes any difference - no idea, but I'd be very surprised if it did. I can't see how they are connected.

 

[jocelyn plummer]

First of all prepare your case;

Talk to your local Policing Team
Get them to talk to the Police Licensing Officer
Talk to the Licensing Officer of your local Authority
Talk to your Town /Parish and Ward Councillors
Your Neighbours/others in the vicinity

This way you will establish the general concensus of opinion as to whether there are legitimate points upon which you can build your concerns. Find out when the Licensing Committee meeting is to be held and request a Public Participation slot, during which you will be able to present your case in a 3 minute 'speech'
There are of course guidelines for objections and you should endeavour to stick closely to those.

The Community Hall has to observe strict regulations with regard to music, and responsible serving of alcohol as drunken behaviour and loud music are now serious anti social behaviour matters.

Good Luck, if you need any extra advice please pm and we will give you some guidance.

 

[AMc]

My first point of call would be a formal conversation with the applicant, especially if you can show some enthusiasm (no matter how fake) for the project in general. Put a "face to your house" and politely point out your reasonable concerns. It's much easier to ignore the objection when it comes from an anonymous complaint on a form.

I don't think its reasonable that you might have to put up with noise to midnight and on to 2am when many residential pubs are obliged to be quiet beyond 11pm. If you can't get some voluntary movement about the frequency and final closing time a formal objection would be sensible.

I once interviewed the Licensing Inspector for Bournemouth for a student radio project, I'm sure you can get an appointment to speak to the relevant officer who's recommendations will be taken seriously by the licensing magistrate but unless you have strong public order concerns I doubt you'll get much support. The police are unlikely to care about a late night wedding reception or 40th birthday party keeping you awake (unless you become armed and dangerous).

I'm guessing that the parish council will have been instrumental in building the community centre and will be looking to maximise hire income with liberal hours but you are part of the community too and setting up a nightclub behind your house isn't very community spirited.

If the building is complete can they do a test run of their sound system to address/confirm your fears about general noise polution?
Sound pressure meters are reasonably cheap but you'd need a calibrated one to make measurements that had any weight.
http://www.maplin.co.uk/mini-sound-level-meter-226470

 

[Moo]

Oh, you do have my sympathy!

An empty building opposite us was turned into a hotel some years ago* and was (secondary) double glazed within an inch of its life.
Unfortunately the huge panelled room that is used for 'functions' has french windows that open on to a tiny balcony above the front door, and guests have a nasty habit of opening them so that they can go out for a smoke/cool fresh air/loud drunken conversations. When that happens the 'music' blasts forth and makes sleep absolutely impossible.
(When we've gone across to ask them to get the doors shut, the noise inside the building is so deafening that we have to shout to make ourselves heard!)
The management insist that they can't lock the doors because of elf'nsafety (fire exit), and have turned a deaf ear to our suggestion that they instal a simple mechanism that would cut off the power supply to the sound system should the doors be opened.
So we've resorted to complaining to the council, who've written (twice) to the hotel, and that seems to have done the trick - for a while.

Do make sure that any consent you give is conditional. I hope it won't happen, but you need a big stick to hand should the noise become a problem.



* You may have seen the hilarious saga of its conversion on a TV programme called "From Hell to Hotel"

 

[MatthewC]

This is the left hand half of the community centre, taken from an upstairs bedroom window of my house. The ivy covered wall is 4 metres from my extension (just being rebuilt, "as was"), and there's about 10 metres to the nearest corner of the Centre. The car park is on the left and cars exit to the right.

What really galls me is the hassle I have had about my extension from conservation and planning, yet they allow this monstrosity in a residential area which is also a Conservation Area! The previous owner here complained about noise potential on the planning application but was basically ignored.

 

[vicky whitworth]

I know the licensing people take noise issues very seriously because they get called out if there is a complaint so they'd prefer to address it before the problem arises. Could you ask your neighbours to object as well? I have been told in similar situations that 20-30 objections makes the council take notice. Talk to your local counsellor as well. They won't want to be associated with alcohol related issues. If you ran a campaign in the local community about the damaging affect of alcohol you might be able to stir up some media interest. Suggest that the venue is offered as a 'dry' bar - alcohol-free. It's all the rage.
I hope you are successful. I hate noise and I wish people were considerate of others and didn't always put their needs first. Good luck.

 

[Flyfisher]

The management insist that they can't lock the doors because of elf'nsafety (fire exit), and have turned a deaf ear to our suggestion that they instal a simple mechanism that would cut off the power supply to the sound system should the doors be opened.

Yes, fire exits cannot be locked, for obvious reasons, but they can be properly managed. Our band played a venue last week with a fire door just to the side of the stage and had a prominent notice on it stating (from memory) "This door is wired to an alarm - any persons opening this door after 8pm shall be ejected from the venue. Persistent offenders will be banned for life".

 

[skier-hughes]

Ou centre now has locks fitted which can be easily broken in case of a real emergency but stop the casual user from opening them. Recommended by our local fire brigade.

 

[NSchwood]

It does seem somewhat of a concern.
Personally, I would get as many of the local residents to join in and file a joint objection.

Try to include any objections you can think of:
- Young children / babies
- Disabilities
- Function of the building / age and possible intent of the people frequenting the establishment in question
- Predicted possibilities of a breach of peace from said establishment
- A helpful reminder the building is a "community centre" and not a place for cavorting

You will get the result your after if you get enough support from local residents.

 

[MatthewC]

Well, I went to the Licensing Sub-Committee yesterday as an "Interested Party" to the formal deliberations on this application, so here's an update on what happened.

The application was granted but with several conditions, one of which is actually more strict than I was asking for: the building is to Passiv Haus standards and so should be pretty soundproof. Now, of course, soundproofing only works if the windows are kept closed; when a VIP opened the building a few days ago, I noticed (from my scaffolding) that the windows were open while the guests awaited the VIP arrival. So at the committee hearing, I asked why this was, and didn't it indicate that on a warm summer evening the windows would be opened also? Yes! Apparently, the building has an air re-circulation, NOT air conditioning, system - there is NO COOLING facility. The condition imposed is that the doors and windows should be kept closed at all times when there is music being played. I was only really concerned about noise at night but the condition will apply at all times! Result!

I've learned quite a bit about the whole process in the last month:

a. If no-one objects to an application, then the Licensing Application is automatically approved without change.
b. If just one person objects then there must be a public Sub-Committee hearing.
c. "Interested Party" is defined by the Licensing Act 2003, and if that doesn't include you then tough luck - your objection is disregarded and you have no say in the matter.
d. If you are an "Interested Party" then you have the right to attend and speak at the hearing (which could be quite intimidating).
e. You need your objections to be based on matters which relate to the council's licensing objectives, which should be published somewhere (although, no surprise, my council's were quite difficult to find on-line).
f. Having submitted a written objection, I found that actually there was no real need to spend ages saying in that document why I objected - all I needed to say was that I was an "Interested Party" and I objected on grounds of potential noise. Anything said in my letter was ignored as I was expected to present my case at the meeting. In fact, I think that if I failed to attend then my written objection would be ignored.
g. In the event of the applicants failing in the future to meet the conditions of the decision, you need to gather evidence of what was wrong and them not correcting it when asked, then (at any time when you have enough evidence) you ask for a Review of the licence, when they could have heir licence revoked.

Our case was chaired by a very precise and pleasant councillor who was at pains to follow the detailed procedure precisely and especially to make sure that all parties were able to say everything that they wanted, and I think it was all very fair. Now we have to wait and see if they meet the conditions.

Matthew