Period-style glass

[Melz]

We have won a partial victory in our quest to get our Edwardian house looking more Edwardian! The building control department of the local council has agreed that when we remove the Upvc double-glazed units, we can have approval for single-glazed timber sashes at the front (which don't meet the required U value) if we have secondary glazing on the inside. This is just for the front elevation. The back will be double-glazed timber sash windows which meet a U value of 2.

So, now I'd like to source some 1904-style glass. Any ideas? The largest panes will need to be approx 2ft by 3ft. Also, anyone got any experience of choosing secondary glazing?

 

[Nemesis]

Hooray! Good news indeed.

Tatra glass - Biff will give the address - cylinder glass, have a look at Storm Windows for SG..

 

[biffvernon]

Tatra Glass sell a very nice hand made mouth blown cylinder glass from Poland at about £80 per square metre but it is more appropriate to an 18th century or earlier house. It has too many wobbles. By 1904 much window glass was about as good as what is now sold as 'horticultural'. It's machine drawn and has occasional distortions in roughly parallel lines rather than the more random wobbles of a mouth blown cylinder glass. Not so much fun but the good news is that it is very cheap. Mostly comes from Russia and Poland.

 

[Melz]

Tatra Glass sell a very nice hand made mouth blown cylinder glass from Poland at about £80 per square metre but it is more appropriate to an 18th century or earlier house. It has too many wobbles. By 1904 much window glass was about as good as what is now sold as 'horticultural'. It's machine drawn and has occasional distortions in roughly parallel lines rather than the more random wobbles of a mouth blown cylinder glass. Not so much fun but the good news is that it is very cheap. Mostly comes from Russia and Poland.

Biff,

I think you may be right about the Tatra Glass. It might be a bit OTT for the date of the house. Is horticultural sheet good enough? I'm not sure what you mean by "occasional distortions in roughly parallel lines". Can it look stripy? Also, isn't it a bit dull - or am I just thinking of glass in a manky old greenhouse !?

Melz

 

[biffvernon]

Is horticultural sheet good enough? I'm not sure what you mean by "occasional distortions in roughly parallel lines". Can it look stripy? Also, isn't it a bit dull - or am I just thinking of glass in a manky old greenhouse !?

It's not dull until it's been in a manky old greenhouse for a long time - and then you can wash it. No, it's not stripey. It is used as a substitute for old glass and often sneered at by people who think that all old glass is crown glass and there must be something wrong with something so cheap. Buy it in sheets that are
28 3/4" x 56" (730mm x 1422 mm) and called 'Dutch lights'.

 

[Nemesis]

Well I think our very wobbly old cylinder glass is rather newer than 18th century... poss latter part of 19th, when the windows were 'Victorianised'.

And you have seen how wobbly that is.

 

[biffvernon]

Yes, if you want quality then the glass described as CYLINDER SHEET TYPE NR from The London Crown Glass Company (which doesn't make crown glass, but imports cylinder from Germany) is the stuff that Nemesis has in mind. The 'NR' means 'no ream', the little ridges that are sometimes found in the slightly more distored Polish glass from Tatra. You pay for it though.

 

[Melz]

Biff, I had contacted the London Crown Glass Company a few months back and found them not very helpful. Just too busy to have time to discuss things properly on the phone. I'd asked about getting double glazed units with their "Victorian Sheet" glass and they wanted a huge amount of money with 100% payment in advance and wouldn't offer any calculation of the U value of the finished product.

I guess I'll go and look at some horticultural glass and see what it's like when it's new and clean.

 

[Melz]

Well I think our very wobbly old cylinder glass is rather newer than 18th century... poss latter part of 19th, when the windows were 'Victorianised'.

And you have seen how wobbly that is.

Nemesis, have you got pictures of your windows on here somewhere?

 

[Nemesis]

I agree re the expense- when I contacted them re cylinder glass a couple of years' ago it was horribly expensive, Tatra is much cheaper.

It's very sad that Crown glass is no longer available - not what you need I know, but for some projects it's absolutely what is required. Nothing else looks like it.

No I haven't pics - not ones which show the glass anyhow! It's quite wobbly, def cylinder (seed) glass, gives good reflections, but try getting a sample of what Biff is suggesting and see what you think.

It's worth going around and looking at other houses too, if they haven't all had placcy in by now (grrr...) and get your eye in for what old glass looks like in various periods.

 

[biffvernon]

Try talking to Tatra - I've found them very helpful.

 

[Penners]

Is horticultural sheet good enough?

Melz - I've used horticultural glass in old windows on a number of occasions. It probably wouldn't satisfy a cylinder glass purist, but I reckon its slight unevenness and occasional little faults are pretty convincing to the untutored eye.

Just one mild warning - it's rather thin, so you have to be quite careful handling it, and don't subject it to too much stress.

 

[Dawn]

Try talking to Pearsons Glass in Liverpool, they carry a glass called Restover or restoration glass, which I found to be very resonable compared to the other alternatives - although I can't remember the price exactly now but I do remeber it not being painfully expensive. They will send you a sample out and can send out orders via carrier, cut to size, I have found them to be very good.

The glass is a modern made glass but does have the distortions in it that old glass has but just not the bubbles you get in older glass. I'm lucky in that most of my 1909 timber sash's have the original glass in them but some panes I have had to replace whilst I've been restoring the windows and I have to say that I struggle to tell the difference of old against new even when side by side in the same sash separated by a glazing bar from both the inside and out - and believe me I am pretty particular!

Hope this helps

Pearsons Glass Ltd
Maddrell St, Liverpool, Merseyside L3 7EH
Tel: 0151 207 1474

 

[Penners]

We're a strange bunch, aren't we?

21st century technology can produce glass that is completely flat and distortion-free. But we don't want that. We want glass that makes things look wobbly and distorted "like in the old days".

I wonder why.

 

[Moo]

The same could be said for wobbly plaster, I suppose.

Don't know the answer, though.

 

[Penners]

I like standing near wobbly plaster, because it makes me look smooth. (A bit...)

 

[Melz]

Dawn, Thanks very much for the info on the Restover glass, I'll look into that.

 

[Michelle73]

When I slipped down the loft ladders and put my arm through a pane of glass in the landing window last year, t'other half went to a local glazier to buy a replacement. I just asked him how he managed to get a nice old distorted pane that fitted with the style others in the sash window and he told me he just asked for the cheapest glass they had !

 

[Penners]

When I slipped down the loft ladders and put my arm through a pane of glass in the landing window last year, t'other half went to a local glazier to buy a replacement.

I do hope that replacement arm works as well as the original one.

 

[Michelle73]

NHS fixed me up nicely thanks, though left with a nice scar as a lasting reminder but now have a v.healthy respect for loft ladders ... will never attempt to go up or down them when there's an open bottle of wine in the house....