Period guttering

[FamilyWiggs]

OK - so outbuildings rebuild is almost complete (pics to follow).

Am thinking about the rainwater goods - and would like to go metal.

Anyone got any tips/recommendations?

Thanks,

Robin

 

[MdB]

- and would like to go metal.

Anyone got any tips/recommendations?

Megadeth, Slayer, Motorhead??

 

[Feltwell]

If you want modern but won't argue too much with an old building, pre-finished, nice and light and easy to fit then I heartily recommend Lindab Rainline. I used cast iron on my house, but I put the Lindab product on a particularly difficult to get at dormer window, as it should not need any attention for many many years - whereas the cast iron will need repainting.

See link below - available in black I hasten to add!

http://www.greenshop.co.uk/documents/Lindab_rainline.pdf

Zambelli is very similar, may be worth a price comparison:-

http://www.draindepot.co.uk/index.asp?cat=71&gclid=CJG6nILpwbACFYwQfAodbGMDVw

Alternatively, if you want cast iron, I always recommend J & JW Longbottom. Their prices are good, they have a much larger range than anyone else and they are very helpful. An old-fashioned firm, no proper online presence, ring them for a catalogue.

http://www.longbottomfoundry.co.uk/

Saint Gobain's "Classical Rainwater" range is one of the most popular, nothing wrong with it but if you go for this do not buy through their website - the prices are truly taking the p1ss, you can buy the same product through a builder's merchant for about half the price, or at least that was the case 4 years ago. I'd use Longbottom's every time though. Saint Gobain's "loose socket" is handy for using up bits of leftover cut downpipe.

http://www.classicalrainwater.co.uk/product.htm?scID=1&category=Round Pipes & Fittings &groupID=52

Don't bother with fancy jointing tapes, they don't work, and the traditional method of linseed putty eventually cracks and leaks. Use roof & gutter seal from a mastic tube on the gutter joints, it stays flexible and as it's protected inside the joint it doesn't seem to degrade like it would if it was exposed. On the downpipe joints, stop them rattling with 3 little folded wedges of roofing lead tapped carefully into the joint - no need to seal them, actually I think it's better if you don't as if you get a blockage you can see where it is by which joint is leaking above the blockage.

For paint, the cheapo Screwfix metal paint I've found is quite good - better than Smoothrite and much cheaper. You do need to dry fit it all, then take it down and paint it before putting it back up again - which is a bit of a faff - but you can't paint the back of the gutter or downpipe in-situ.

http://www.screwfix.com/p/no-nonsense-smooth-metal-paint-black-500ml/18967

To secure the downpipes the traditional method is pipe nails, but I think these are much better - so much easier if you ever have to take it down again. Once the heads are painted back you don't really notice them. Not necessarily this size, just for illustration:-

http://www.screwfix.com/p/multi-monti-flanged-hex-head-shield-anchors-10-x-80mm-pack-of-25/34665

Finally you can get cast iron guttering & downpipes on Ebay secondhand - I've had some bargains. Downpipes in particular last a hell of a long time and can be OK secondhand, guttering can be a bit iffy. It's a bit of a pain to clean them up though - a cup wire brush on an angle grinder is best. They have a habit of cracking if you get them shotblasted.

An angle grinder is by far the easiest way to cut them, and I'd buy yourself a pack of 10 cheap HSS drill bits for drilling the bolt holes for gutter joints - you will blunt the bits quickly.

Phew! That's all I can think of for now.

Oh yeah - and I'd go for Faith No More rather than MdB's suggestions :wink:

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Many thanks Feltwell - I really appreciate the time that must have taken. A lot there for me to look at and consider.... I shall report back.

 

[Feltwell]

Other opinions are available, particularly on jointing methods if I remember rightly from on here in the past! Ohh, and I was fixing into brick, not stone - the Multimonti fixings are absolutely brilliant in brick, but I've not tried them on stone. I would have thought they would work well though - the thread cuts into the material, they produce very little expansive force within whatever material you're fixing them into, very different to expansion fixings which by definition produce lots. Therefore they are much less likely to break the stone - you can certainly use them in brick close to an edge with no problem.

If your stone is a sod to drill then it might be easier to use pipe nails / screws driven into wooden plugs which are in turn driven into a joint in the stone - I've not tried it though, but I'm sure someone else on here has and can offer an opinion based on experience rather than theory!

 

[Johnboy]

I'm sure the purists will wince but Screwfix do a range of cast-iron lookalike guttering, never used it but it might be an alternative?

http://www.screwfix.com/p/floplast-cast-iron-effect-hopper/65699

 

[Feltwell]

I'm sure the purists will wince but Screwfix do a range of cast-iron lookalike guttering, never used it but it might be an alternative?

http://www.screwfix.com/p/floplast-cast-iron-effect-hopper/65699

NNNOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! Sorry Johnboy, but it's hideous stuff. It fades after a few years, the gutter joints look totally false, and it creaks and groans like mad every time the sun comes out and it starts to expand, and creaks like mad again as soon as the sun goes behind a cloud - honestly, you can hear it really clearly. Like all plastic guttering it will go brittle after a few years as well.

 

[LadyArowana]

NNNOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! Sorry Johnboy, but it's hideous stuff. It fades after a few years, the gutter joints look totally false, and it creaks and groans like mad every time the sun comes out and it starts to expand, and creaks like mad again as soon as the sun goes behind a cloud - honestly, you can hear it really clearly. Like all plastic guttering it will go brittle after a few years as well.

I can't comment on guttering, but as a general rule strongly advise against buying anything which includes "effect" in the description. Likewise "faux" "imitation" and "style of". Whilst there will be some tasteful exceptions ( some of the new faux fur fabrics are getting very good and avoid the whole dead animal thing ) the things are usually a disappointment either immediately or once they start to wear.

 

[88v8]

That's a jolly useful post from Feltwell, thankyou, that will go into my Favourites.

Just a couple of points:

Alloy, whether gutter or otherwise, needs a compatible primer or an etch primer, otherwise the paint will come off
http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_170745_langId_-1_categoryId_165625
Other etch primers are available.

When drilling cast iron, use a slow speed - c100rpm - and a high rate of feed, in other words push b hard so the drill is always cutting, or it will blunt in a trice. Use no lubricant.

New cast iron is sometimes coated with bitumen ex-works, which is an absolute pain to get off and needs, sigh, another special primer. My recollection of Longbottom's products is that they are not bitumen-coated, but worth checking.

Old rusty cast iron cannot be rescued solely by wire brushing. It also needs to be prepped with Jenolite to prevent rust coming back. If properly prepped and then painted with this stuff
http://www.rust.co.uk/epoxy-mastic.cfm
and then fixed with care so as not to damage the paint - difficult, as cast iron is jolly heavy - it will not rust.

Aesthectically, you can combine alloy gutters - not really noticed - with cast iron downpipes - more visible - which I think is a good compromise for most buildings. Just check that the alloy spigots will fit the iron sockets.
And whilst on the subject of dimensions, old iron downpipes will not necessarily fit into new iron downpipes. How do I know that.... I presume the moulds were peculiar to each foundry.

PS agree re plastic guttering... except... it doesn't creak if used on the north of a building... and it can be painted. Rough it up well with coarse sandpaper, then two coats oil-based topcoat, no primer. Plastic thus treated was still good after 30 years at our previous house. However, I have to say that was in the days before alloy was available, I wouldn't use plastic now.

Ivor

 

[Feltwell]

Ivor's approach to the painting, with Jenolite and an epoxy paint, undoubtedly will last the longest - but I have had decent results with "direct to metal" (Smoothrite or non-branded equivalent) on old cast iron after wire brushing, 6 years on now and no sign of it starting to peel, and it's a lot less effort. I don't believe Longbottom's stuff has any coating, what I've had from them has arrived with nothing on.

I'm not sure about alloy guttering - the advantages for putting it up are obvious, it's so much lighter than cast iron. However, I've had a couple of batches of second hand cast iron guttering & downpipes where some of the fittings have clearly been replaced at some point with alloy, and the alloy has always been in a worse state than the (presumably older) cast iron bits. To put it in context though, I suspect we're talking 40-60 years life rather than 80-100 ! Aesthetically it looks very close to cast iron.

I admit to being biased against plastic from a previous house - I was forever repairing leaking joints, and every time I disturbed it to do those repairs I always broke a fitting or gutter bracket as it was so brittle. The creaking every time the sun came out drove me mad - sit on the patio in summer for a break, and all you could hear was the guttering creaking and cracking away. Still, now I'm older it's probably me you can hear creaking when I sit down for a break!

If I wanted "easy" guttering to put up - i.e. pre-finished, easy to cut and lightweight - I'd go for the steel Lindab/Zambelli stuff every time. More expensive than plastic but performs a lot better, and cheaper and much less hassle than cast iron. Just depends on if you can live with the looks of it really.

 

[worms]

All my cast-iron downpipes are simply held in place with these:

Much easier to locate between the stones in a rubble wall than anything that needs bolts to be inserted at precise points.

 

[MatthewC]

I got my cast iron RWG from Rainclear (http://www.rainclear.co.uk) and am very satisfied with it. They also do aluminium and other materials.

 

[biffvernon]

Wooden gutters are good.

And they grow on trees.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Yes, our chestnut guttering is looking in great condition after 30 years of being up, though the lead that lines it probably needs rewelding in one or two spots.

It's prohibitively expensive though.