Period Football Chants

[Nigel Watts]

At the second ever professional football match I have attended (Arsenal vs Stoke at the Emirates last night) I was struck by the contrast between the "beautiful game" and the not so beautiful language of certain members of the crowd. I was with my 11 year old in less sought after seats high up behind the goal at one end but my 16 year old, a guest of a season-ticket-holding family of a school friend with more exclusive ringside seats, had a similar experience. "Do many football supporters have Tourette's?" he asked me afterwards.

"The ref's a w****r" seemed a popular chant but was nothing compared to the abuse hurled at our gallant opponents. "We pay your benefits" was the least impolite. "F*****g northerners" and "Piker" also seemed popular; "Who?" was rhetorically declaimed when any member of the opposing team was mentioned by name such as during a substitution, along with allusions about their poor plumbing skills or such like, implying presumably that they were amateur players. At one point everyone seemed to stand up. Not wishing to commit a faux-pas I did likewise until I heard, to my chagrin, that my fellow spectators were chanting "Stand up if you hate Tottenham". Next time I heard this I remained firmly in my seat. I don't hate Tottenham, nor do I wish to. I also can't bring myself to pronounce my team's name in a Cockney accent with more that two syllables, as in "Are - sir - nuw", which is required to make some of the chants scan. Do these things disqualify me from being a true Gooner? My eleven year old, needless to say, was putting on his deepest voice and joining in enthusiastically.

I thought at first that the crude and violent language was being uttered with lashings of post-modern irony, and was therefore rather amused by it, but by the end of the game I was not so sure. If it were not for the splendid efforts of the stewards and the fine men and women of the Metropolitan Police I suspect that some of my fellow supporters would be indulging in some period football violence.

I feel I need some guidance before my next game. Is there an equivalent of Nancy Mitford or Debrett's Correct Form I could study in the meantime?

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Oh dear Nigel, not good with youngsters in tow. I love the "Tourette's" comment - he'll go far I'm sure!!

I can honestly say that we don't suffer that sort of thing at Wrexham in the Conference! It's all very genteel and civilised - indeed I suspect that the tweeds wouldn't even get a second glance at The Racecourse... I doubt the half-time pies are much better though. Last season when we were trying out lots of free transfer players, it was our side who'd chant "who?" whenever one of our players was subsituted! :lol:

At least you don't have to worry now who is teaching your 11 year old swear words at school - he learnt them all last night. Indeed, he'll be teaching them to the resst of the class this morning, unless carefully counselled first :shock:

I must admit I do find some of the chants funny - at a very base level I guess it appeals to the crowd instinct. Some of the less blue ones can be very clever.

 

[Matt Green]

You can't attend a thug crèche and complain about the quality of associate. Think about those folks would have been doing if they weren't at a football match....

The Wiggs' have the right of it: go to smaller team matches they need your money more and there is usually a better quality of person attending in my limited experiences before I left the mighty Wycombe to fend for themselves in division 4 that was.

 

[Feltwell]

My limited experience of being dragged by a long, long since ex-girlfriend to watch Crewe Alex was that not much chanting went on - everyone was too cold and wet, watching them fail miserably (again!). They were is a reasnobly high league back then (no idea where they are now).

I agree on the "small teams" thing though. A couple of my ex-colleagues take their young kids along to watch Shrewsbury Town on a regular basis with no problems.

 

[LadyArowana]

I feel I need some guidance before my next game. Is there an equivalent of Nancy Mitford or Debrett's Correct Form I could study in the meantime?

You should start with the proper attire, if you begin now there will be time for something like this to be completed before the warm weather.

in the meantime a layered look should keep you warm.

You will be able to blend effortlessly into the group you hope to join.

 

[Penners]

I also can't bring myself to pronounce my team's name in a Cockney accent with more that two syllables, as in "Are - sir - nuw"

One claims no expertise in this subject, but one is given to understand that the supplementary syllable is de rigueur in such circumstances. As in "Ing-ger-land" and suchlike. Apparently this technique makes the word easier to pronounce by tongues that are ill-used to precise exercise.

Further useful expressions, one believes, are "Awight?" (which roughly translates as "How do you do?"), "Naaah" ("I am in some disagreement with that postulation.") and "Kin' 'ell!" ("Oh, good gracious!").

 

[Penners]

You can't attend a thug crèche and complain about the quality of associate.

That is a deep and insightful commentary on British demography. :wink:

 

[Nigel Watts]

Actually I didn't mind my son hearing the expletives, which he seemed quite amused by, although I admit that, when asked its meaning, I only gave him a metaphorical definition of "w**k*r". He has a sheltered enough existence and some exposure to how others live is no bad thing (although, ticket prices being what they are, the spectators could hardly have been entirely representative of the population at large).

We the stadium five minutes walk away and my son now a fanatical Arsenal supporter switching to, say, Colchester United is now hardly possible!

 

[Carol]

The singing is usually better at rugby matches anyway! According to now-left-home daughter the best singing and chants are at league games. She was most impressed at a recent Welsh game to hear some harmonised verses "far too rude to repeat to you, Mum, but sung beautifully in parts!"

 

[Nigel Watts]

"Kin' 'ell!" ("Oh, good gracious!").

I often hear this preceded by a "fah" sound. The last syllable in these parts also seems to have a "w" in it, preceded by a short "e", giving "fah kin ew".

 

[JoceAndChris]

:shock: :shock: :shock:
I've never been. But did occasionally get caught up in the crowds in London - scary.

Nigel, I can't bear to think of you in this place! Please be very careful.

 

[Pford75]

/Rant on

Nigel....I never really had you down as sanctimonious

To attend a football match (especially that match given the recent history between the teams) and express surprise that there was some 'language' would be similar to one of those tattooed chaps attending the Covent Garden opera and expressing surprise that some of the people there were a 'bit posh'

This is a topic far too lengthy to do justice to here, but football has traditionally been a working class sport and there are many arguments to support the suggestion that 'gentrification' is responsible for many of the 'ills' of the modern game (money focus, overpaid players, all seater stadia in place of terraces). You may recall Roy Keane's famous reference to 'prawn sandwiches'.

Watching football is a participatory event - unlike the theatre or cinema, much of the atmosphere relies upon the gladiatorial setting between two sets of fans. American colleagues who have attended their first 'soccer' match with me have always commented (favourably) on this passion in comparison to the rather anodyne US sports experience. I still remember attending my first football match with my father (terraces at White Hart Lane vs. Nottingham Forest) - the air was blue, my father unlike the man I knew in any other situation...but I loved it....and it certainly hasn't turned me into a thug.

The singing is usually better at rugby matches anyway!

Quite. Football is not alone is coarse verse. If footballers behaved in the same way as many rugby players...the Daily Mail would have a field day.....yet there is a snobbishnes towards football. It is still thankfully rare for footballers to deliberately stamp on each other, gouge eyes, pinch each other etc. (all regular occurences in rugby).

I would suggest that if you didn't enjoy the experience, you are better off watching on TV (perfect for the genteel fan) and leaving some extra seats in the stadium for real fans

/Rant off

 

[Penners]

It is still thankfully rare for footballers to deliberately stamp on each other, gouge eyes, pinch each other etc. (all regular occurences in rugby).

Whahay! Pford plays a strong defence! :wink:

Your comment above is, of course, true. But it is also rare for rugby players to adopt a thespian approach to injury, rolling on the ground in agony because they felt the wind of a passing opponent.

 

[Nigel Watts]

if you didn't enjoy the experience

Actually I did enjoy the experience and the crowd reactions were indeed exhilarating - I was one of the first on my feet at the first near miss at the Stoke goal - but not having had any previous exposure the the crowd banter I was intrigued by it. Like the club, I am an Islington resident, but the liberal, PC, wealthy-yet-discrete Islington I know seemed a million miles away, even though many of my Champagne Socialist neighbours would have been in the stadium.

Shouts of "pikers", "get a house" and "go back to your caravans" sound like anti-gypsy (and hence racist) taunts, although quite what the connection is to Stoke-on-Trent's football team and its supporters I don't know. Such remarks, and saying you hate Tottenham is not very far away from shouting that you hate queers or Jews. Harmless working class rituals perhaps, but middle class professionals overheard uttering such words would probably get sacked. I am not seeking to pass judgment or express views; these are just my observations.

 

[Feltwell]

You should start with the proper attire, if you begin now there will be time for something like this to be completed before the warm weather.

LadyA, where did you find that picture of me?

To tell you the truth, it's not the most flattering pose I can strike. I have considered giving up the lard butties and losing some weight, but I'm worried that my tattoo will say "Arse".

 

[Penners]

Or even "Anal"! :shock:

 

[Pford75]

Nigel - I'm glad you enjoyed it. As a fan of the club myself, I find the stadium (on the right day) it's own version of theatre.

I agree that some songs/chants cross the lines of acceptibility, but I don't see this as any different to many other sports. Some of the rugby chants are much more overtly xenophobic and disparaging of other nationalities. To be fair, football has progressed a long way in removing racism over the past 20 years.

saying you hate Tottenham is not very far away from shouting that you hate queers or Jews

Absolute piffle.

I believe it is entirely possible to dislike a football club and to share this viewpoint robustly without being a racist. FWIW, Stoke City play some of the most turgid 'football' in the history of the game and in the past have approached games with Arsenal with the seemingly sole intent to injure as many players as possible. Feelings run high between the two clubs since one of their players broke an Arsenal players leg (it was his first game since the injury, against Arsenal last night).

The Emirates is a cakewalk compared to some other grounds. I suggest you try the New Den for your third (and possibly last) foray into football :wink:

 

[Nigel Watts]

saying you hate Tottenham is not very far away from shouting that you hate queers or Jews

Absolute piffle.

I agree it would be, on its own, but what I wrote was

Such remarks [about gyspies], and saying you hate Tottenham is not very far away from shouting that you hate queers or Jews.

not very elegantly put perhaps, but I was including the gypsy reference and was thinking that the logic could potentially move, falsely of course, towards (all x supporters are y racial group) (we hate x) therefore (we hate y). I have not been to a Tottenham game but I understand many Spurs supporters are Jewish, Stamford Hill being in the natural catchment area, and that anti Jewish slurs were not unknown in the past.

 

[Nigel Watts]

Feelings run high between the two clubs since one of their players broke an Arsenal players leg (it was his first game since the injury, against Arsenal last night).

One Stoke player got thoroughly booed every time he got the ball. Now I understand why! For my next game I think I need an interpreter.

 

[Penners]

saying you hate Tottenham is not very far away from shouting that you hate queers or Jews

Absolute piffle.

I have to agree. I don't see it as anything remotely like sexual or racial prejudice

Some of the rugby chants are much more overtly xenophobic and disparaging of other nationalities.

Now there I profoundly disagree. I confess that I've never been to a professional football match, but I've been to plenty of professional club and international rugby matches. I have never once heard a racist, xenophobic or obscene chant.