Period drains - joining new to old.

[Penners]

I'm installing a new downstairs bathroom. The old one had a toilet with an S-trap - the boss went vertically down into the concrete floor and was concreted into the socket end of a 4-inch salt-glazed soil pipe. When I removed the toilet, the salt-glazed socket came with it!

So I'm now faced with the prospect of finding an adaptor that will enable me to connect 110mm plastic soil pipe into the inside diameter of a 4-inch salt-glazed pipe which has no socket. I can't use an ordinary neoprene sleeve with two jubilee clips because I can get access to the outside of the salt-glazed pipe - it's concreted into the floor.

There are all kinds of adaptors with soft finned neoprene seals that push into the inside of 110mm plastic pipe, but I don't seem to be able to find one that will push into the inside of a 4-inch salt-glazed.

Anyone got any suggestions please?

 

[skier-hughes]

I gave up looking and dug out the concrete and fitted a new pipe.

 

[Feltwell]

There are all kinds of adaptors with soft finned neoprene seals that push into the inside of 110mm plastic pipe, but I don't seem to be able to find one that will push into the inside of a 4-inch salt-glazed.

What's the internal diameter (in new money) of the salt glazed pipe Penners? Less than the 108mm-ish that a 110mm plastic pipe will be I guess. Is there no way that an adaptor designed for 110mm plastic will fit?

Something like this looks like the finned bit is substantially bigger than the pan connector pipe itself, so it may squash down sufficiently to suit your needs if inserted with a bit of silicone grease to lubricate*.

http://www.screwfix.com/p/mcalpine-wc-con8v-90-pan-connector-with-vent-110mm-outlet/57535

* if you thought any smutty comments at this point then you clearly have a dirty mind. Go and say 10 Hail Mary's.

 

[Feltwell]

I knew I'd seen something somewhere....

Penners, I know this isn't the sort of connector you need, but have a look at the manufacturer's description for this adaptor:-

http://www.plumbcenter.co.uk/en/plu...drain-connector-4-110mm-x-1-1-4-x-1-1-2-10492

It's this bit that's relevant - "•Finned seal spigot for internal connection to cast iron, plastic or clay 4"/110mm pipe"

That makes me think that their other adaptors that will enable you to connect a WC pan, such as the ones on this brochure. Have a look at the "boss pipe connector" comments on page 8 of this link:-

http://www.plumbcenter.co.uk/wcssto....all/hu/re/McAlpine_WcConnectors_Brochure.pdf

I reckon the others will fit your pipe as well. I'd suggest a trip to your local plumbers merchants - mine are a good source of all kinds of bits & information that the DIY stores don't carry.

Hope that helps

 

[eezageeza]

I had exactly that problem, and found that a connector like this one :

http://www.screwfix.com/p/mcalpine-wc-conq-90-space-saving-pan-connector-110mm-outlet/23036

(although I got mine from the local builders merchant) did the job perfectly. As Feltwell suggests, the fins squish down to fit snugly inside the glazed pipe. I ran a seam of silicone around the top just to be sure!

 

[Me!]

but I don't seem to be able to find one that will push into the inside of a 4-inch salt-glazed.
Anyone got any suggestions please?

Yes, I know exactly what you mean and I saw the bit you need just last weekend in Ipswich. It was either in B&Q (the Anglia Parkway branch) or Wickes, sorry I can't remember which, but I was collecting fittings from both. I specifically noticed the connector you need, because I didn't know they existed before that, and I thought it was a very good idea!

 

[DJH]

Multikwik pan connector will do it...they also come offset as well.

Doug

 

[DJH]

Multikwik pan connector will do it...they also come offset as well.

Doug

 

[Penners]

Many thanks for those useful replies, everyone.

I looked at the squishy finned type of push-in connector (tell me if I'm getting to technical for you!), while I was in the builder's merchants. It seems these are designed primarily for 110mm plastic pipe, and I asked the sales guy whether it would fit into a 4-inch salt-glazed (internal dia. 103mm). He hummed and hah-ed and said he thought not. But I notice that many of the products that you chaps have suggested say that they are for "110mm plastic/4in salt glazed". Maybe I should buy one and try it.

Doug - are Multikwik different from similar products - are their finned seals squishier or something?

 

[DJH]

I found the pan side of the connector was much more adaptable accepting the spigot from the pan (the old fashioned S type that is) and it will accept a short piece of 4" pvc pipe which will then accept the modern pan connectors.

There are ? mark type pan connectors which will help take up any discrepancy between the drain position in the floor and the modern straight type pan spigots.

I wouldn't say they are any squishier fins on the Multikwik but they have a small sachet of lubricant and are an industry standard, a bit like the Hoovers and Vacuum Cleaners comparison.

Doug

PS They will fit 4" salt glazed in fact if they all fit 4" pvc they will fit 4" clay.

 

[Penners]

if they all fit 4" pvc they will fit 4" clay.

I hope you're right, Doug. However, what you call 4" PVC is in fact 110mm, so salt-glazed seems to be about 7mm smaller on the internal diameter.

I will report back when I've tried it.

 

[Me!]

many of the products that you chaps have suggested say that they are for "110mm plastic/4in salt glazed".

Not my one. The one I saw was absolutely, specifically, only, uniquely, bespoke for fitting its squishy finned end into a bit of plain ended saltglaze. The one comment I would add is that because this finned spigot needs to be a narrower bore than usual so that it and the squishy fins can all fit inside the saltglaze, it does cause a bit of a restriction in the pipe. I did wonder if perhaps some larger, uhum, cough, solids may get caught there!
The one I've seen looks like this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/110mm-Soi...r-Black-Push-fit-uPVC-Soil-Pipe-/110807223362 but presumably not the same size as that one because that says for cast iron and clay which I believe are larger bore than saltglaze?

 

[Penners]

I had exactly that problem, and found that a connector like this one :

http://www.screwfix.com/p/mcalpine-wc-conq-90-space-saving-pan-connector-110mm-outlet/23036

eezageeza - I'm encouraged that that Mcalpine fitting would fit inside a 4in salt-glazed pipe. However, it's not exactly the shape that I need. Did you get the impression that the finned end was a standard McAlpine size, or was it a special?

 

[Penners]

The one I saw was absolutely, specifically, only, uniquely, bespoke for fitting its squishy finned end into a bit of plain ended saltglaze. The one comment I would add is that because this finned spigot needs to be a narrower bore than usual so that it and the squishy fins can all fit inside the saltglaze, it does cause a bit of a restriction in the pipe. I did wonder if perhaps some larger, uhum, cough, solids may get caught there!

That's encouraging, thanks Me!. The Lowestoft B&Q (our nearest) is pretty small and crap. If necessary I'll make the journey to Ipswich if I can get the exact product from there. If you find yourself in that B&Q in the near future and you see the product again, would you be kind enough to post details for me?

 

[eezageeza]

Penners - yes, I thnk all the finned type connectors are the same o/d, and should therefore do the job. There is a bewildering range of shapes available; I'd be surprised if you can't find one to do what you need - but would echo others comments that you probably need to go to a decent builders/plumbers merchants, rather than one of the DIY sheds, to see the full range.

 

[Me!]

If you find yourself in that B&Q in the near future and you see the product again, would you be kind enough to post details for me?

Certainly. I have no plans to go there again at the moment, however I have some plumbing that needs doing and I may have a go at it tomorrow. I already have all the bits I need, and have allowed for all possible eventualities, ... so I should only need about three or four trips to B&Q to complete the job :roll:

 

[Penners]

[I have no plans to go there again at the moment, however I have some plumbing that needs doing and I may have a go at it tomorrow. I already have all the bits I need, and have allowed for all possible eventualities, ... so I should only need about three or four trips to B&Q to complete the job

How well I recognise that syndrome! My worst such memory was going to B&Q to buy about £200-worth of stuff for a project, then having to go back two days later simply because I'd run out of wall plugs!

 

[88v8]

... run out of wall plugs!

What :shock:
You don't carve them from seasoned oak ?
Faugh!!!

 

[Penners]

I'm 70 years old. I don't start any long jobs like that.

 

[Penners]

OK - in case anyone is interested I thought I would give some feedback on this.

Using plenty of lubrication, I managed to force it in, to my delight! (Go on, you lot, you can have a double-entendre field day with that!)

The fins on a standard 110mm pan connector will fit into the interior diameter of a 4-inch salt-glazed pipe. The fitting was made by Opella, part of the Twyfords Group. Where the boss on the salt-glazed pipe had broken off, just below the surface level of the concrete floor, there was quite a jagged edge around the broken end, so I took the sharpness off that with a tile file. I then put a generous sloshing of silicone lubricant around the edge of the pipe's interior diameter and on the fins of the fitting. One firm push and it was in!

My only small worry is the possibility that, being so well lubricated, it could slip out again if it was bashed, but I reckon a generous fillet of mortar around it should remove that risk. The fitting will eventually be in a boxed-in section of a cupboard, so aesthetics aren't important.

Many thanks to everyone for your thoughts and ideas on this. Much appreciated.