Period Chimney - Picture!

[mattice]

OK, not so exciting, but having put the porch decision on hold, we've just scaffolded the Chimney to re-point and are currently awaiting the 'Lime Weather Goddess'. I'll try to get some pics up but it's interesting where cement has been used and the old bricks have been degraded. Anyway I digress.

I couldn't resist a journey to the top to have a look at my chimney stack and found a second uncapped but apparently lined flu open to the elements. You can probably see the steel liner popping out an inch or so next to the chimney pot. There are no signs of bedroom fireplace, ventilation or even signs of damp, although sticking your nose down the flu it's a bit musty.

The rain is buying me some research time, does anyone have any suggestions on how best to cap this off to prevent rain ingress but keep the (albeit one way) ventilation? I've found some terracotta ventilated 'hats' but they all seem to be designed to clip on top of the pot rather than sat on a mortar bed.

Here's the pic, I particularly enjoyed the view, it didn't look as high from the ground :?

 

[plasticpigeon]

I did wonder if you were musing over the porch still. I pass a farmhouse on my way to work which has a nice looking porch. They are so hard to get right especially if enclosed. I shall take a pic tomorrow.

 

[mattice]

Many thanks plasticpigeon,

I've been distracting myself sorting the garden and shed out but I'm being reminded my Mrs mattice that she would like a porch that doesn't fill with water by the winter The only period feature in the garden was a pile of asbestos..... hence my low profile :?

 

[88v8]

How to cap it off... put another pot up there, like the one you have, and cap that. It will look better as well.

I wonder what twot left it as it is. He should be taken up the ladder and pushed off.

Ivor

 

[mattice]

I met them a few weeks ago, they lived in the house about 50 years ago, you should have seen the porch then, I'll try and upload a pic they gave us! Just emailed them about the chimney and basically his dad pinched the bedroom fireplace flu, stuck a steel liner in it and ran it (route unknown) from the first floor to the back door where the old boiler use to be. They didn't put a chimney pot on! I'm glad I didn't go rummaging around in the bedroom wall to try and vent it....

I also learnt that his dad rescued the house from a demolition order... teaching himself bricklaying and roofing...

I'm on the look out for a matching chimney pot!


Thks,
M

 

[88v8]

....his dad rescued the house from a demolition order... teaching himself bricklaying and roofing...

Maybe we'll cancel the ladder pushing-off...

eBay is awash with pots, hopefully you'll find one locally. It only needs to match-ish, after all.

Ivor

 

[mattice]

Thanks for the tip ivor, hadn't even crossed my mind to look there!

 

[mattice]

Pot installed, chimney pointed, bricks replaced!

I'll get a picture up... honestly, I was a little disappointed with the pointing job, it seemed sound following a rework of a few patches his apprentice did, but it was quite smudged. Kind of how I imagined my own attempt would be.... The gaps were only around 8mm so I think they struggled a little, and of course I've never attempted such a task! It has given me the encouragement to have a go at some patch repairs around the house.

Have others found it difficult to find people who want to point and can point or is it such a horrible job? Is there such a thing as a builder who LOVES pointing?

I was however very pleased with the match of the lime mortar mix that we pre-sourced. All credit to a firm up North.

M

 

[Zebra]

Oh dear, so sorry that you're not too pleased with the pointing job. If the gaps are quite small it must be an incredibly intricate job, requiring much patience and fuss. Glad that you've been inspired to try your own hand though. I think that doing things DIY takes much much longer, but the result is often better, simply because the DIYer is prepared to devote as much time as it takes to get that perfect finish.

 

[vicky whitworth]

Hello,
Isn't pointing one of those jobs that requires patience and the ability to treat it as a meditative experience as much as technical knowledge and skill? You get in the 'flow'. My neighbour - who knew nothing about old buildings until a few years ago when he bought his cottage - has been on a one day lime course, has now bought bags of ready made lime from Limebase and is raking out and re-pointing the front of his cottage. He's doing a patch every day until the sun comes round and then it's all covered up in hessian and kept moist. It looks stunning. Mind you he's retired so he's got all the time in the world. Have a go.

 

[Lime]

As has been said, taking care and a certain amount of time is important.
Poor pointing stares back at you for years.
Whenever I point, I use the right size trowel (very important) and make one to size if necessary.
The bricks are wetted to get a good key (I use a hose to wash out old loose mortar) and the fresh mortar forced into the gaps.
Wetting the brick makes the likelihood of marking the brick face much more likely but getting a good key is the more important.
Finally clean and shape up the joints with a clean trowel.
Any marking of the brick face can be removed by the skilful use of a damp (not sopping) proper sponge frequently rinsed in water.
Wipe as you go, don't leave it.

 

[88v8]

Wipe as you go, don't leave it.

Yes, and oddly enough, more so than with cement. I lime-pointed a bit of the back of an outhouse, wiped off dry with old sacking as I would have with cement, and it's very smudged. Fortunately doesn't matter, but it was certainly a 'heads-up'.

To get the lime rammed into the joints, I believe the old-timers would use bits of tailor-made hardwood to pack it down.

For pointing stone, the mix, or rather the size of the aggregate in the sand, has to be varied to suit the size of the joints. Wider joints, coarser aggregate.

Ivor

 

[tobydog]

That's interesting. Looking at various educational videos on-line it seems to suggest in most of them that you leave any surplus until it has dried and then just chip it off the wall before using the churn brush to bring up the surface. Some emphasised that there is a fine balance between wetting the wall and using a pretty dry mix. The result being that there is no real bond between the surplus and the wall. None of them had to wipe down the joint to get a clean finish. I suppose a great deal of it depends on what mortar finish you are after. I have some re-pointing to do shortly so I'll bear it in mind.

 

[vicky whitworth]

Wipe as you go, don't leave it.

This seems like a pretty good mantra for most of life really :lol:

 

[plasticpigeon]

I'm not an expert but have experimented quite a bit with pointing. I don't know what mix you are using, but I would first advise against using straight hydraulic lime in the mortar. It does not make a particularly nice mortar and also sets very very hard, almost like cement. I have found a 50:50 mix of NHL and hydrate makes things much better, but putty might be nicer still to use. I have found that the mix can be very dry and if it is rammed in with finger trowels it makes a good bond to wetted bricks and there shouldn't be much overspill on to the surface. I am trying to go for a flush pointed look, and for this I have found that i need to use a reasonably fine sand (something sharp and fine like plastering sand) and then the best finish is achieved by rubbing the surface of the joint in one direction, not back and forth, with the end grain of a piece of wood that is roughly the same thickness as the joint. It can then be lightly brushed after leaving a bit longer. If you want coarser aggregate in the mix I have found that this method doesn't work as it drags the grit around, so the pointing must be filled to the desired depth, and then brushed or bashed to expose some aggregate. Bashing leaves some stipple marks and can break the corners off when the wall turns a 90 degree corner. The best way to learn is to mess about on a piece of wall that isn't important. I can't emphasise too much that the mortar can be quite dry and still stick well, it can be like bread dough. This is only my experience and not a definitive guide. Maybe Middi or Stuart can add something here!!

 

[mattice]

Some great tips! I have a few small sections in need of attention before winter so I'll gather the tools and have a go. I have a ready mixed mortar, NHL 3.5 the aggregate was matched from a sample, it is incredibly close to the original so I have some 'stock' for ongoing repairs.

 

[mattice]

I promised a picture or two of the finished job, including new pot.

 

[plasticpigeon]

Yeh, it doesn't look great to me. I have had similar pointing/jointing on my place by so called conservation builders. I am going to live with it on my chimney as it is high up and isn't so noticeable. I am having my bay window base rebuilt though.

If you can't cope with it, I would try and get it off with a scourer or wire wool, and the sooner the better as it only becomes harder over time. If you use brick acid, there is a risk that the mortar will go darker as the lime will be washed out of the surface of the pointing exposing the sand which can make the area look patchy.

It's a shame that your ready mix is NHL, as I am convinced it sets too hard and is also not as nice to work with as a mortar with hydrated lime in too. Could you get the sand mix that was used and add your own lime perhaps??

 

[mattice]

Like yours, it's high up on the side of the house so I can probably live with it. I think they do a putty version of the same mix so I might try a 10kg tub for patch repairs.
Thks,
M

 

[LadyArowana]

If it's any consolation it looks fine to me, although I have to confess chimneys not really my thing, as long as it's sound....... Which ours wasn't ( neighbour sent me some pictures, the house has tenants ) apparently after much scaffold and stuff it's OK. I gave the builder money, a big sack of lovely great British pounds. So that's me chimney'd out!