Period Chairs, mid-century modern enthusiasts beware

[LadyArowana]

Some of you may know the rather unhappy saga of my attempt to buy a pair of mid-century modern style chairs last year. Despite having a "bricks and mortar" shop that I had visited a long time before ordering off their website, the proprietors turned out to have significant cash flow/ profitability issue and after giving me ( and many others ) a wide variety of excuses for non delivery they went into liquidation at the beginning of this year.

I was appalled that through a series of totally legal maneuvers they could incorporate a new limited company entity and carry on trading on the web seamlessly. The website remained with only very minor changes to some wording and they closed the shop in one location and opened in another. At the time of the liquidation I discussed this Phoenix Company with another creditor's accountant and bailiff and we both thought that their lack of skill and diligence would result in more people having bad experiences as customers.

The social media accounts of the new company now show unhappy people who have paid for products and had nothing delivered. The owners had managed to have all the negative online reviews of the "old" company removed, even though it was the same people operating the same business.

I believe there is a lesson here for all of us that buy expensive things online or order them through a shop that we have don't have a long established relationship with, or even when employing contractors. Check out not only their feedback but also the history of the directors. Anyone who has a recent involvement with a liquidated company that was insolvent may be a risk, and a lack of negative online reviews may not mean that they were never written. Plenty of free websites will give an overview of a limited Co's financial position and how long they have been around.

As for me I was eventually able to recover funds via the protection offered by the card I used to pay, other creditors either didn't know how to make that claim or failed to do so in time.

 

[Lime]

In the UK if payment is made using a CREDIT card (not a debit card nor a secondary credit card held in another person's name) the credit card company is held by law "jointly" responsible for any short comings, such as non delivery or shoddy goods.

 

[88v8]

Credit card... very good point. I tend to use Paypal for pretty much everything online, no protection there.
Why? Had my card hacked twice, and Paypal is just less faff.
But for any big-ticket purchases, I'll think twice in future.

Been lucky as regards insolvencies - in 1991 bought an expensive 'period' bathroom suite, the Co went bust then reappeared as you experienced, but the 'new' company honoured the order.

It is a scandal, the way Companies can reincarnate themselves. Keeps the economy buoyant, at the expense of the unlucky creditors.

Ivor

 

[LadyArowana]

It's interesting that you raise the credit/ debit card distinction Lime. I had purchased with a debit card and initially thought I had no recourse. However when I went to the creditors meeting ( I was lucky it just happened to be while I was in the UK and at an insolvency practitioner near our apartment ) the liquidator told me that there is a procedure to claim even on a debit card.

The protection isn't as strong as with the credit card, as it is a matter of policy of the financial institutions concerned, rather than a statute related to the consumer credit act. However, he told me that if you have good evidence of claim like bank statement, deposit/ payment invoice and chain of e.mails etc then they will often honor the refund. My claim was rejected at the initial stage, but my bank followed up and the funds were repaid. I believe there is also an appeal procedure to an ombudsman if you feel an institution hasn't followed their stated policies.

 

[Flyfisher]

I seem to recall debit card protection being increased in recent years bringing them more or less in line with credit cards. Unless it has changed recently, I think credit card protection is only for transactions over £100.

Personally, I use a credit card for almost all my expenditure simply out of convenience. I have a variable direct debit arrangement that pays off the card in full each month so that I never incur any interest. Furthermore, I get 1% cashback for every transaction up to a certain amount and then 0.5% thereafter. Plus, responsible use will boost your credit rating.

As for the risk of having the card hacked, this has happened to me twice and in both cases the card company refunded the fraudulent transaction immediately (one incident was when my card was cloned after being used in a petrol station and used to withdraw cash in Kuala Lumpur). But that was many years ago. Since then I've had the card company call me to verify any transaction flagged up as 'suspicious' or even to warn me that they think the card may have been compromised so they will send me a replacement card and cancel the old one. So I'm pretty confident that their security departments try hard to stay on top of things, which is understandable really because they rely on customer confidence.

More info on card protection here: http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/visa-mastercard-chargeback

 

[Keithj]

Credit card protection is generally pretty well foolproof and safe. Except...

My card was cloned (I think they just "guessed" the number) and used to buy a television set and a subscription to a porn channel in Los Angeles. I don't live there, and wouldn't.

The television set was refunded immediately, but they said "The TV station is known to us and honourable, so the subscription stands and will not be refunded". I said "It was fraud, I'm not in Los Angeles and I don't watch porn TV. Now, you can refuse to refund if you like, but I will take the case straight to appeal." The refund came a couple of days later, I suspect after they'd spoken to their "Legal Department".

I changed credit card company as well, just to be on the safe side.

 

[Penners]

I think credit card protection is only for transactions over £100.

That's certainly my understanding.

Yer Ladyship, have you had any discussion with Trading Standards about this furniture retailer? It might be worth doing. Even if they can't help you, it's possible that you might save some other poor souls from being similarly ripped off.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

I should just add to this sorry tale that MiLady turned down my generous offer to stage a dirty protest outside the shop in question. For some reason, she declined.

I now have a considerable quantity of human guano and no use for it....

 

[LadyArowana]

A little footnote to this story. I re-ordered the same chairs through another supplier ( recommended by my contact at the manufacturer ) and they were delivered yesterday. Thoroughly pleased. If only I didn't have to leave the carpets rolled up in plastic with anti-moth stuff !

 

[Feltwell]

Glad it all got sorted in the end LadyA, and that you're pleased with the new chairs.

Reading back on the earlier notes, like many others I tend to pay for things online with Paypal where possible, out of convenience. However Paypal then charge my credit card. I wonder where this stands legally if the supplier of the goods went under?

 

[LadyArowana]

My debit card payment went through "Sagepay", which is another 3rd party collector of money. The whole system does get a bit muddy when it isn't paid directly to the supplier, Paypal have their own set of rules too don't they? I was glad I had lots of documentation, and copies of e.mails showing that my refund was agreed by a director and also saying it would be paid from a particular bank account!