Period Carbon Monoxide

[LadyArowana]

Seems it can be a problem with particular cookers as well as boilers or fires.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...ookers-in-7000-Brit-homes-rises-to-eight.html

 

[worms]

Dreadful. Surely there must be a product design standard for all gas appliances which should have prevented this one being on sale in the first place?

 

[Flyfisher]

Our CO alarm started beeping last week. Fortunately it turned out to be the 'low battery' warning but as I replaced the batteries I wondered why such alarms were not built into gas appliances.

Then I realised that the sensors only last for about 5 years before they need replacing, which would likely require a qualified person to do the job at a much greater cost that the £30 cost of a detector/alarm, so such a move would probably not be popular.

 

[DJH]

We've just bought a new CO alarm ( gave the other one to Grandaughter!) and was surprised to see that their commendation from the manufacturer was to mount them in or near a bedroom. I might be wrong about this but I thought carbon monoxide gas was heavier than air so by the time the gas reaches the alarm everything downstairs near the faulty appliance would be dead?

Doug

 

[worms]

This site suggests it mixes evenly with air.

 

[DJH]

Thanks for that Worms. I must pull myself out of the Dark Ages... :lol: i feel more reassured now.

 

[Jellyfire]

Probably worth reiterating in case anybody doesn't know, it isnt just gas that causes deaths by Carbon Monoxide poisoning. Open fires, wood burners, ranges, even barbecues under cover are all risks. I certainly didn't know that until I stumbled across it on PPUK, we have dual smoke/CM detectors both upstairs and down. Without wishing to sound preachy, for anybody whoe doesn't have them, it could very easily be the wisest few pounds you ever spend.

 

[DJH]

Good advice Jelly. A few pound spent now just for reassurance alone is worth it and we always have a spare battery at hand when the old ones from the fire alarms as well as the CO alarm go flat and keep pinging away. It's such a temptation to take out the dud battery and think to yourself I'll get a new one later. It gets forgotten about and is never done!

 

[Feltwell]

Probably worth reiterating in case anybody doesn't know, it isnt just gas that causes deaths by Carbon Monoxide poisoning. Open fires, wood burners, ranges, even barbecues under cover are all risks. I certainly didn't know that until I stumbled across it on PPUK, we have dual smoke/CM detectors both upstairs and down. Without wishing to sound preachy, for anybody whoe doesn't have them, it could very easily be the wisest few pounds you ever spend.

Very true. My sister-in-law's father was killed about 6 years ago by a faulty solid fuel central heating boiler in his period property. He'd just come home from holiday to a cold house, boiler wouldn't light, his wife got fed up and went to bed to get warm. She came down in the morning to find him dead and the family cat unconscious from CO poisoning. The cat was brain damaged and had to be put down the following day.

Not a family episode I would wish on anyone else. Makes me wince when I've heard people on here say how they never get their boiler serviced. As Jellyfire says, even a barbecue under cover can kill - there was a teenage girl this summer who died in a tent, so hardly that well sealed a structure, due to a disposable barbecue having been left alight in the tent porch.

 

[Jellyfire]

Oh feltwell that's terrible and such a needless tragedy. I forgot to mention boilers, which are of course one of the worst culprits. If anybody on here doesn't have an alarm, then don't delay and either pick one up tomorrow or order one online to be delivered Monday. And if you don't have your boilers services regularly then do it ASAP. Don't assume it can wait, carbon monoxide isn't something you can see or smell, so you may be exposed to it at home right now and not know. The symptoms can easily be mistaken for flu or cold or simply tiredness.

I'm always surprised at how little publicity is given to the danger. I think most people connect it purely to old gas boilers, and are completely unaware that gas, oil, coal, wood etc can all be just as dangerous.

I'm currently boycotting a certain retailer due to their tax avoidance methods, but given the seriousness of this and the fact they are reliably quick at delivering here is a link to buy one now if you don't already have one...
http://www.amazon.co.uk/tag/carbon%20monoxide%20detector/products

 

[JohnB]

I'm currently boycotting a certain retailer due to their tax avoidance methods, but given the seriousness of this and the fact they are reliably quick at delivering here is a link to but one now if you don't already have one...
http://www.amazon.co.uk/tag/carbon%20monoxide%20detector/products

As several people pointed out on the radio today, Amazon provide facilities for lots of small retailers, whose livelihoods depend on it, but are nothing to do with the tax avoidance. So buy from one of them.

 

[Jellyfire]

Good idea John, or pop into a local DIY retailer tomorrow. Helping the economy and potentially saving your family's lives all for a few quid!

 

[robgil]

I dont get the boycott thing , every small or big company in the UK avoids paying tax if and when they can , it isnt illegal and I am sure everyone who decides to boycott these company's would also be avoiding paying tax given half the chance.
My last employer was banging on one day about that comedian who avoided paying full tax and how he should be made to pay the full whack, he later proudly admitted to being part of quite a few such tax avoidance schemes.
How many of our politicians, prime ministers, royals etc etc are using these schemes? Almost everybody is doing it and those who are not are those who most likely can not.

 

[Jellyfire]

Whilst agreeing in a way, (I think its the legislation that needs changing) as somebody who usually tries to buy British and locally when possible, even when it's a bit more expensive, I'm boycotting them mainly because I think whilst what they are doing isn't illegal, I think it's giving them an advantage over lots of other firms that contribute to the country. Make no mistake, we each pay more in cuts and taxes because these large corporations pay less. The only way thu will change is if legislation changes or if they lose customers. It's no coincidence that Starbucks are suddenly offering to pay more tax (not the actual tax they should be paying might I add), its because the consumers are deserting them.

 

[LadyArowana]

There is a question on the self assessment form for personal tax worded something like "do you participate in any tax avoidance schemes" which I find extremely funny. I always want to say "yes" and go into a long explanation about buying lots of shoes and handbags in Singapore where the VAT equivalent is much lower, however on the basis that HMRC have zero sense of humour I don't. As regards corporations paying minimal amounts, it may be morally offensive, but what needs to be corrected is the legislation that enables it to be legal. Companies have other stakeholders to answer to and by making use of legal means to maximize their dividends they are only seeking to fulfill that duty. I'm not boycotting Starbucks because they don't pay enough tax, I'm boycotting Starbucks because I can make myself coffee at home much more cheaply and then I can buy shoes and handbags.

 

[Jellyfire]

Agree completely with that sentiment, and I own a limited company and also try to minimise my tax as much as possible. I do think there is a difference between the way this is done by the companies in question though. Being fairly ignorant of the intricacies I imagine its nigh on impossible to close every loophole that can be exploited by a multinational with clever enough accountants. Starbucks in holland charging themsrlves a notional fee for each cup of coffee made in Britain may be legal and a smart way of avoiding paying any tax here, but their delivery vehicles use out roads, if they get broken into they call the police, if they catch fire they dial 999, and every penny spent in their stores is being taken out of our economy so whilst it may be legal, I think that a lot of consumers consider it unethical. Presumably the bad publicity is having a huge effect on them here, (unlike google and amazon who are standing firm as they have a virtual monopoly in their sector so aren't suffering in the same way), so the power of the customers pound has pushed them into paying at least something towards what they really ought to be paying. A victory for the consumer so far is say!

 

[Penners]

I realised that the sensors only last for about 5 years before they need replacing, which would likely require a qualified person to do the job at a much greater cost that the £30 cost of a detector/alarm.

The price of electronic CO alarms has come down substantially, recently, FF. I've just bought a new Kidde one for only £15.

http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/7001617.htm?CMPID=GS001&_%24ja%3Dkw%3A{keyword}%7Ccgn%3Apla%7C%7C7001617%7Ctsid%3A11677%7Ccn%3Apla%7C%7C7001617%7Cmt%3A{MatchType}%7Ccrid%3A14542145259)

It's definitely not worth fitting a new sensor.

 

[philpjuk100]

Between 10 and 50% of people surviving CO poisoning are permanently affected (BBC website) a friend who was poisoned over ten years ago still has headaches/vision problems and mood swings.I would like to boycott Starbucks but are unable as I have never been in one! we find little independant shops far more interesting.

 

[Feltwell]

I would like to boycott Starbucks but are unable as I have never been in one! we find little independant shops far more interesting.

I find not liking coffee to be a good enough reason to have only ever once stepped inside a Starbucks! The cup of tea I had was distinctly average and vastly overpriced. Give me a little independent cafe any day.

 

[Flyfisher]

Make no mistake, we each pay more in cuts and taxes because these large corporations pay less.

That may be true, but who do you think is going to pay for any additional taxes these companies may eventually cough up?