Outside wood trim--choice of species

[Lynn]

I am rebuilding some window trim that has deteriorated and needed unusual stock--some that measures 1"x4" actual inches...not the usual 3/4" etc.

I found some at a mill, but it is poplar and the person there said he wondered if it was a good choice, it might not be durable. Then the carpenter I am hiring mentioned it might not last. I don't get it since it will all be painted anyway...what's to deteriorate?

I could get cedar at premium prices and it would almost measure 1", or in the past I've cut down larger stock, but will this really be a problem...and what kind of timescale?

Pine was original.

 

[biffvernon]

Use cedar not poplar. Don't rely on paint.
Don't you Americans grow cedar trees more than an inch thick? They grow very big over here.

 

[Penners]

Don't you Americans grow cedar trees more than an inch thick? They grow very big over here.

:lol:

 

[Lynn]

oh I hate dimensional lumber that doesn't measure what it says it is. Who dreamt it up I wonder.

I guess if you all agree I'll pop for cedar...I don't want to ever have to do this work again or have it done as is the case right now. Labor will be more than half the cost anyway...

 

[Penners]

I definitely agree with Biff. Cedar's the stuff.

I don't know about the US, but in the UK timber is sawn to standard "nominal" sizes. Years ago this was Imperial - 1 inch, 2 inch, etc. - but today it's metric. However, if you buy timber planed, then it will be undersize to the original nominal dimension. So a board specified as "ex 25mm x 150mm PSE (planed sides & edges) or PAR (planed all round)" will normally end up about 21mm x 146mm.

Is that maybe why yours is undersize?

 

[Lynn]

Is that maybe why yours is undersize?

You got it exactly right. Interesting you use metric and we are stuck with the old English system...now that doesn't seem right.

 

[Gervase]

The problem is, nealry all builders in my part of the world still work in imperial measures. So, although everything is meant to be metric, in reality it's still done the way it always was. It can be interesting hearing a lad who left school just a couple of years ago calling out "Seven six and thirteen thirty-seconds" while holding a tape measure.
I'm nearly old enough to be his grandfather and find metric stuff far easier!

 

[NT]

In the real world people wil meet and use both metric and imperial, and need to be able to use both. Only an idiot school system would teach them only one system.

Soapbox all yours now.


NT

 

[biffvernon]

My wood come in board thicknesses of inch, inch and a half, two inch and three inch and is priced by the cubic foot.
OSB is four foot wide NOT 120 cm.

Lynn, now that you're getting the right wood, make sure you paint it with linseed oil paint. The modern paints are like wrapping the wood up in polythene. Paints with low vapour permeability are responsible for a terrible amount of rotten exterior joinery.

 

[Lynn]

I'll do a search on linseed oil paint...I'm sure it is thoroughly discussed here. I have been using latex paint over oil based primer...but I'm flexible and now working on the front of the house.

As far as units go, I looked up the old Mars mission scraped because of two scientific teams using different systems...

http://slashdot.org/science/99/09/30/1437217.shtml

I'd agree one system should be enough and metric wins out for me.

 

[Nigel Watts]

Imperial vs metric debates bring out the anork in me. I've got going now and cant stop....

One of the many reason why we should admire our friends in the US is their sensible decision to stick with our Imperial systems of measures.

For working with objects at a human scale imperial is hard to beat - something with which the continental arch modernist and iconoclast Le Corbusier could not disagree.

I have two sets of weights for my kitchen scales - one metric and one imperial. One stacks beautifully and is most elegant. The other is a mess. Guess which is which? Of course the imperial set is the elegant one, with each sucessive weight being exactly half the previous one 1lb, 8oz, 4oz, 2oz, 1oz, 1/2oz, 1/4oz. This system is infinitely extentible. The same is true of the subdivisions of the inch. You can choose to work to the nearest 1/8th, 1/16th, 1/32, 1/64 etc - dealing all the time with integer fractions rather than messy decimals.

 

[CHRIS]

One thing you have failed to mention is that all construction projects in the USA are not in Feet and inches but in Feet and tenths (1ft divided into 10) so 5ft 6inches becomes 5ft 5 etc also all land and property transactions are done in the same way. so they are half metric!!!!!

I have worked on one project that was done in metric but as soon as the engineers went along and set out profile boards for the road alingment a chippy went behind with a calculator and put a new stake in with the dims in Ft and tenths!!! surprising as most labour in the USA is from Mexico and they use Metres all the time

 

[Penners]

My old dining table is 3 cubits by 4 spans. It cost me 28 groats and six barleycorns.

 

[Lynn]

My old dining table is 3 cubits by 4 spans. It cost me 28 groats and six barleycorns.

I think that is the last word on this.

A carpenter is now (right now pounding away) dismantling the rotting window trim and putting in cedar and new sill will be fir.

Then Biff mentioned using linseed oil paint in this thread. I have searched on Linseed Oil Paint and I gotta say it doesn't seem straightforward to me. I did search this site, but came up feeling like the full discussion has not happened. So when I get a minute today I'll put together what I've found and start the definitive thread on linseed oil paint...not in this thread though.

 

[CHRIS]

http://www.cftech.com/BrainBank/OTHERREFERENCE/WEIGHTSandMEASURES/MetricHistory.html

 

[Lynn]

wow now that is the last word...

Interesting though on US history of trying to adopt this...the article says:

Finally in 1975 Congress passed the Metric Conversion Act. The major provisions of the bill provide for:

* Adaptation of SI as predominant system of measurement units
* No specific timetable
* Voluntary participation
* A Metric Board
* Costs of Conversion

Well this is so US...I remember as a kid in high school when all the road signs would have metric and miles, so we could get used to the idea of km. Years and years of that, but now there is only miles. No timetable, voluntary, this all leads to staying with miles. Too bad they didn't make the change in 1830 before we were in so deep.

Sounds though like the building trade in England isn't really metric either...what is this laggard carpenters?

Finally my favorite obsolete measure is the furlong...originally how long an ox pulled a furrow (in England I suppose). Full discussion on Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Furlong
which explains at the bottom about why I was taught (growing up in the Chicago area) that 8 blocks make a mile, although they would always say city blocks might be longer than suburban blocks. Chicago had their blocks planned out to a furlong in length, so 8 of them would be a mile.