OT - period fruit trees

[Feltwell]

A bit off-topic, but I know some of you are keen and knowledgeable gardeners and most of us have tackled overgrown gardens at some point.

In my garden are a greengauge and a plum that are rather poorly. When we moved in, the garden was very badly overgrown - the canopies of both trees were smothered in Russian Vine, and clearly had been for a long time. That was stripped back and some light let back onto the poor trees 4 years ago, but they've never really recovered. Both look a bit threadbare - leaves only tend to appear towards the end of the branches - and both produce a pitiful amount of fruit, if any.

I'm reluctant to take them out unless I have to. What are the chances of them recovering and being healthy, looking presentable and fruit bearing if they are very heavily pruned, rather like a pollarded tree? I don't mind if it's "kill or cure" - something needs to be done with them.

If that's a realistic option, anyone know any good "idiot's guides" to such drastic fruit tree pruning? My gardening skills are a bit limited currently to hacking vastly overgrown things back and mowing the lawn

Edit - the little "Oops" man has gone a bit weird hasn't he? I'm sure he didn't used to have disappearing facial features quite like that!

 

[Penners]

The following is far from expert advice, but it's an accumulation of advice that I've gleaned from others, over the years.

First, you need to accept that fruit trees don't last forever. I can't speak specifically for your plum and greengage trees, but I understand that - in general - a tree has a period of about thirty years of really good fruiting, after which it starts very slowly to deteriorate. Once it reaches 70 - 80 years old it's unlikely to be worth keeping for its fruit. So if your trees are past their useful life, they may not be worth saving.

However, to give them a chance, I would not go for your "kill or cure" pollarding. This is most likely to kill rather than cure. It's better to use the rule of thirds - give one third of the tree a good pruning each year, over the next three years. If the trees are worth saving, this should do it. And don't take the main limbs right back to the trunk. Take them back about halfway, cutting to just above outward-pointing growth nodes, so that the new growth (assuming these is any!) will grow away from the centre of the tree.

These suggestions come with no guarantees whatsoever, and if someone more expert than me gives you different advice, follow theirs and not mine!

 

[MatthewC]

In my garden at a former house in Cambridgeshire, I had three old apple trees with canker. I spoke to this old chap who used to tend orchards (now covered by the A14). He asked me how old the trees were and I said "about 15" diameter". "Well," he said, "they don't owe you anything!"

I cut the bad bits off them but they still died anyway.

 

[Lime]

A mid-winter spray with a solution of Jeyes Fluid should bring about an amazing recovery in fruit production.
The spraying should be thorough covering all parts of the tree every year.

 

[Moo]

Bluebell Model Allotments in Norwich, where I'm lucky enough to have one of the 200-odd plots, was founded in 1925 in an admirably idealistic spirit.
Each pair of plots shared a shed*, water tanks were (and still are) strategically positioned around the site, narrow roadways were laid, and assorted fruit trees were planted all over the place - usually on the corners of plots, beside the roadways.
Many of these trees are still there (I have a very decrepit but fecund plum tree on my plot) and, although badly neglected, most of them produce bumper crops most years. So much so that when the Heath-Robinson apple pressing machine has its annual outing there's a huge queue of people with barrowloads of fruit.
So I suggest that you give your trees a chance. It could well be that, like some of 'our' trees, they are interesting old varieties.

And on the subject of pruning, there was an article on just that in yesterday's Telegraph gardening supplement that I'm sure you could find on-line if you can't get hold of a copy.





*now, since the plots were sliced in two, we each have a quarter of the shed

 

[JoceAndChris]

Certainly don't judge your fruit tree on this year's performance. It's been a terrible year for fruiting with the strange spring and lower rainfall. Do you look after your fruit trees? They need mulching, parasites removing, fertilising, and water water water. Even if you just do some of those things you should see an improvement.

 

[Keith Bowman]

I'm no expert either, but plum trees (and presumably greengages) are notorious for getting disease (silverleaf?) through cut or pruned branches. If you do prune it, try putting some pruning sealant stuff on the cut surface. A garden centre should stock it - and ought to be able to advise on when it's best to prune. I believe that, like walnut trees, it is best to do it in the summer when they are in full leaf.

 

[MdB]

Certainly don't judge your fruit tree on this year's performance. It's been a terrible year for fruiting with the strange spring and lower rainfall.

Our apple tree normally has a good year then a bad year. Last year was a good year so we weren't expecting much this year but if anything it has been better - it is seriously weighed down with fruit.

 

[Feltwell]

Thank you all for your comments.

The "rule of thirds" sounds logical, and actually one tree did respond quite well to some rather crude pruning (erm, I hit a branch with a digger bucket and then scaffolders broke a few.....) - needless to say the breaks were taken back to a clean cut.

I'm not too bothered about the fruit production being heavy, so long as they produce some - it really is a pitiful amount at the moment, half a dozen fruits per tree every year if you're lucky. I don't think they're that ancient - an aerial photo from the '50's doesn't show them - I'd hazard a guess they are 30 years old. What bothers me more is they look so threadbare - due to the smothering they received from the Russian Vine, leaves only tend to appear towards the tips of all the twigs, where they would have had some chance of getting a little light. I'd hoped that once freed up back into the light that in following years buds would appear further down, but I've given them 4 years now to no avail so something has to be done.

I shall have a look on t'interweb for the best time of year to prune and then do the "rule of thirds" I think, give them a last chance. If Keith's right and summer is best time then I'd better get on with it! If that doesn't work then it's out with the bowsaw and shovel.

Our (very old) apple tree tends to have a good year then a bad year as well. Last year was a good year, but this year has been OK - certainly better than some previous ones. I guess it depends on exactly what the weather did local to you.

Edit - looks like I'd better get on with it, the RHS should be a trustworthy source! Mid-summer is the right time to prune established trees apparently.

Whenever pruning an overgrown tree, ideally do it in stages, over a number of years. Pruning back hard in one year only encourages excessive, vigorous and unfruitful growth.

http://apps.rhs.org.uk/advicesearch/Profile.aspx?pid=339

And it looks like the "heavy year - light year" pattern of cropping on apple trees is common:-

http://apps.rhs.org.uk/advicesearch/profile.aspx?PID=280

 

[biffvernon]

I don't think plums benefit from pruning. They are not like apples at all.

 

[skier-hughes]

It's a bit late for pruning plums now, they should be done before the fruit really sets, the same goes for all fruit with stones in. I'd go for the clear all growth on he ground below the branches, mulch well and do the pruning next year. You do risk losing it to disease if you prune now with the weather turning cooler, particulalry if it's unwell.

 

[Onetap]

Totally OT. I happened to be loitering at a road junction in Cornwall a couple of weeks back and nicked an apple from a small neglected looking tree that formed the corner of the hedge of a caravan/holiday park. I'd imagine that there was an orchard or a garden there once. The apple was small, mis-shapen, irregularly coloured and very hard, maybe a Cox would be the nearest relative, exactly what you wouldn't see on sale in a supermarket. It was utterly delicious, probably the tastiest apple I've eaten in the past 5 years, worth the trip to Cornwall.

 

[Penners]

Well, Onetap, I should imagine that the next tap on your door will be from a member of the Cornwall Constabulary.

Just pray that you weren't rioting when you stole the apple, otherwise they'll throw away the key.

 

[Juju]

Lots of good advice here - I haven't really got anything to add cos I don't really do fruit tree gardening either at home or at my NT property. I'm very good at harvesting and eating it though! The fruit trees there had been neglected so were looking sorry for themselves but with expert care now from a volunteer expert we've had a fantastic harvest from them this year including peaches. In 2 weeks time I'll be walking round with a group of fruit tree experts as they're going to help us identify some of the older trees and make recommendations on care so I'll pass on any useful points or ideas.
Juju

 

[Flyfisher]

I lose track of our fruit yields from year to year, but this year we've had no plums at all on any of our five victoria plum trees, yet a friend (near Bishops Stortford) has had a bumper crop from theirs. A few years ago we had such a bumper crop that some branches broke with the weight.

We also have three damson trees (all next to each other) and this year one was fully laden but the other two have been very sparse.

It seems to be a good year for walnuts though.

Our old Bramley apple tree is about the only reliable tree we seem to have.

One interesting thing this year was our cherry trees. They were absolutely laden and I had been grazing a few each day waiting for them to become their best before engaging in a mass harvest. But I went away for a week and when I returned the trees had been stripped bare, right to the very top of the tree.

I presume it must have been birds and that the cherries had reached some magical stage of ripeness that attracted them to strip all the fruit in a few days. But I'd never noticed such a thing before.

 

[Penners]

our cherry trees...had been stripped bare, right to the very top of the tree.

I presume it must have been birds and that the cherries had reached some magical stage of ripeness that attracted them to strip all the fruit in a few days.

If the cherry flesh had mostly been pecked off the stones, then it was probably birds. But if the fruit was completely missing - stalks, stones and all - I would tend to suspect local scrumpers!

Alimentary, my dear Watson. :wink:

 

[LadyArowana]

One interesting thing this year was our cherry trees. They were absolutely laden and I had been grazing a few each day waiting for them to become their best before engaging in a mass harvest. But I went away for a week and when I returned the trees had been stripped bare, right to the very top of the tree.

I presume it must have been birds and that the cherries had reached some magical stage of ripeness that attracted them to strip all the fruit in a few days. But I'd never noticed such a thing before.

Mr ( or Ms ) Onetap maybe :lol: