old latts and plaster ceiling

[Anonymous]

I have ceiling made of the old latts and plaster (if thats what it is called) One ceiling needs renewing due to a few areas of unevenness. I also had a flood which probably hasn't helped it!.
Should I have the whole ceiling (latts and all) pulled down and then boarded or should I have it plaster boarded over (after removal of the humps)?

Thanks for any help
ps this is not a listed or period building - just and old ex council house.(but quite nice)

 

[Anonymous]

I'm no expert on this but as you are not worried about authenticity, I would just board on top of the laths and get it skimmed over. The problem with pulling down the whole ceiling is the amout of mess involved.
Make sure that the boards are nailed to the existing joists and not stuck on with adhesive as this will probably bring the lot down

Just my two penneth

Geoff

 

[Anonymous]

It will crack. I guarantee that.

Is it really beyond fixing? What's wrong with a few wobbles?

 

[Anonymous]

You can put plasterboard directly onto the existing ceiling, plaster and all, if you screw it up with dry lining screws long enough to go straight through into the laths. Most of these will bite first try but you may have to search around for wood in some places. Use pressure sensitive adhesive treated scrim tape for the joints before skimmimg and decorators caulk round the edge to the walls before decorating and it should be ok - mine have been!

 

[Anonymous]

Most of the upstairs ceilings in our house are cracked and have a few lumps. I've looked in the loft and some of the ceiting joists have come away from the main beams and have quite alot of deflection in them when walked upon. I plan to re-attach the joists by screwing them back up from below, then I'm gonna either get the ceilings skimmed over or attch plasterboard then skimmed.

As for the downstairs ceilings, they were covered in polystyrene tiles and once we removed them it turned out that the original mouldings had been hacked off. There are lumps or cracks so I'm going to skim over to hide the remains of the original decorations.
Unless somebody can suggest another way to go about making it look better!

 

[Anonymous]

We have plasterboard on top of original lath and lime plaster in upstairs rooms.

Not good really.

It does crack eventually. Better to repair the original if posible.

 

[Anonymous]

I think it's a fact of life that ceilings crack eventually - just look at the trouble and expense the National Trust went to at Wallington the year before last to insert stainless steel pins and epoxy resin into the lime plaster ceilings of a couple of the rooms because they were becoming detatched from the laths. Ultimately, if the plaster has lost its hold on the laths, it will come down unless you hold it up, and patching is never going to do that. Having found myself part way up a stepladder holding an 8ft square sheet of plaster and anaglypta because I made the mistake of getting hold of a loose corner of the paper and pulling, I would always go for screwing plasterboard over the whole lot so it can't come down.
Of course, if it's just a few little cracks then its a different story . . .

 

[Anonymous]

Susan - you've had a range of suggestions here, so for what it's worth, here is my contribution!
The decision as to whether you can make good the existing ceiling depends on the following:

1. OK - the ceiling's a bit uneven. But is it actually unstable? The flood problem could have damaged it, but there's no point in replacing it unless it actually is bad. Have you tried going up a stepladder and giving the ceiling a bit of a push up and down in various places? If it still seems firm, personally I would value the fact that it's good old lath and plaster, and leave it alone. The uneven-ness is what's called "character"!
2. If the ceiling is definitely unstable, this could be due to one of three things: (a) the plaster has lost its key on the laths, (b) the nails holding the laths to the joists are failing, or (c) the laths themselves are rotten.
The quick solution would indeed be to bung plasterboard over the whole lot and put a skim of plaster on it. But this could turn out to be more expensive than repairing the original, depending on the problems with the original. As Evelyn says, you are also likely to get cracks in the plaster skim - but frankly you'll probably get a few cracks in a lath & plaster ceiling too, after a while!
I suggest you should get a builder to have a look at the problem. But not just any old builder - make sure it's one who is experienced in the use of traditional materials. You might find that he can quote you a reasonable price to make good the ceiling you've got. If he can't, then you'll just have to get quotes for the plasterboard option.

 

[Anonymous]

The way the Trust repaired the ceilings at Wallington is the way to do it with historic buildings - pin back and consolidate what you have, not chuck out and start again (and certainly not with plasterboard and gypsum!).

Areas of detached plaster can be repaired by pinning back and using PVA also. If it's really beyond saving and the laths are OK then the plaster can be removed and the laths re-used with patch repair of haired lime.

While all ceilings will crack eventiully, in an old building which moves along with the seasons lime on lath is much more forgiving.

I curse whoever stuck plasterboard on top of our lath and plaster ceilings. We now can't remove very easily without major damage to the original, and they do crack badly along the seams and edges eventually. And it tends to be sooner rather than later

 

[Anonymous]

I would never tear down an old plaster and lath ceiling even if it were in a bad state.
Once you accept the process will be messy then it is relatively easy to repair.
As has been mentioned before the laths may need replacing or renailing.
Never replace laths with sawn timber, split timber (as the originals are) is much stronger and gives a better key.

If the ceiling is just cracked with some falling away of plaster or bulging it is possible to repair it to a very high standard.
The house I live in at present hadn't been touched since it was built (1906) when I moved in 15 years ago. All the ceilings needed repair as they were badly cracked but the laths and nails were in good condition. I repaired the plaster carefully and they are still "flat as a pancake" and gives me great pleasure to look at still.

The method I used was perhaps quaint but very effective.
I first purchased about 50 wooden sticks (approx 1"x1") that were slightly longer than the height of the ceiling. I placed small pieces of hardboard between the bulging ceiling and the stick tips so that the other end was on the floor which pushed the ceiling back up into place. When the whole ceiling was supported I raked out all the cracks right back to the laths. The cracks were sprayed with water (I used a B & Q pressure mister/spray) to wash out any loose material.
Then I used a gun (similar to that used for sealants) but the cylinder was filled with polyfilla and injected deep into every crack. The polyfilla went right through the laths and formed an anchor on the other side of them to hold the plaster in place.
The surface of the cracks was scraped free of any excess polyfilla and allowed to harden for a week.
Then the sticks were removed and the surface of the cracks filled flush to the ceiling.
The result was a perfect ceiling exactly like when the house was built.

I used polyfilla (or similar) because it is a relatively soft plaster but has a lot of strength and adhered to the old plaster and laths well.
Avoid plaster that is too hard and has no give as it will certainly crack and cause problems.
A proper plasterer who knows his business will find plastering a whole ceiling of laths with three layers of plaster just a morning's work.

 

[Anonymous]

Well, not quite one morning's work - it takes time for a coat of lime to harden! It's not like gypsum.

But it's not hard to do - lime is more forgiving because it can be worked for longer.

 

[Anonymous]

You are quite right Evelyn, I was referring to gypsum plaster.
However I was attempting to emphasise that a good plasterer works very quickly even with lime.
There are a great many "plasterers" who take take too long and overwork the plaster, do a bad job, make a terrible mess, damage anything not connected with their plastering job and cost the earth!

 

[Anonymous]

"....I would never tear down an old plaster and lath ceiling even if it were in a
bad state."

So if the laths are rotten, you replace them while leaving the plaster in place, eh? I'd like to see that trick!
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