Old Concrete Floor - What shall I do with it?

[Sue Wilkinson]

This is one of those things you wish you hadn't started. I needed a bit of wall to practice plastering a dead sharp corner (yuck) for a job I'm doing in someone else's house. I'm replacing cement/concrete and goodness knows what else for them with lime, but one sharp corner only needed to be stripped half way up the wall (they are keen to keep costs down) and so I have to match my plastering in with the remaining corner and I've always done soft corners before.

I have a bit of wall in the back lobby that I thought would be good practice, a sharp corner and all. So as the plaster on this wall was blown at the bottom I thought I'd take it off and use it as a test area.

So that job should have taken a couple of hours at most to include cleaning up. This is the 3rd day!!!!

Turns out the wall was covered in about 2" of rock hard cement. But the wall underneath was a nice red brick, single skin with good finished pointing on the passage side, so was obviously built to show. I decided to clean it all off as my husband said he liked it and would like it left exposed and lime washed. So that all came off very slowly because of the shear effort needed. Then I transfered to the wall opposite and got a practice area sorted. I would dearly love to remove the rest of that wall too, as such hard stuff has no place in my desired home, but I don't have the time. I've also hacked off inches of concrete from a stone outside wall in there, which is very wet and will benefit from lime at the bottom. I don't have the strength or time to remove all of this rock hard substance in this little space. I need a builder to help me, but can't afford one, so if I can improve the bottom of the walls I'm hoping that will help.

This passage connects with the loo, the hammering to remove the cement on the passage side has cracked the plaster in the loo, so I'm now taking that off. In the process I decided to see what was under the horrible lino, so that's gone, with the rotten tar paper that was under it and hundreds of silver fish. I'm now left with an old concrete floor in the loo. I got very excited when I realised that under that is the original quarry tiles, probably onto the earth. I found a strip of wood totally rotted away under a botched join between the passage and loo floor which shows quite a bit of the tiling. I would love to take up the concrete and bitumen in the passage and the concrete in the loo, but I don't have time yet, and the loo has been installed after the original flooring by several hundred years I expect, and there is an obvious area with newer cement round the loo and pipework etc that means the original tiles will be caput under there.

So, I have to keep the concrete floor for now. I'm getting the paint off the walls, will replace what plaster I can get off with lime and will distemper over everything. What can I do about the floor to make it look more presentable?

It's had a coat of red floor paint at some point, but most of that is off and the rest will be off soon! Can I polish it with something to make it look better yet allow it to continue to breath? Can I paint it with something that won't seal it?

After all these years of inappropriate remedies for damp down there I would like it to have a chance to dry as much as it can. One day it and the tanking and the rest of the cement is coming out, but not this year!

Any ideas?

Sue

 

[biffvernon]

No, but have you forgotten that you were meant to be practicing sharp corner plastering and then going off to do a job at someone else's house?

 

[CHRIS]

I am lost as well!

I was going to recommend the use of this

http://www.diytools.co.uk/diy/Main/Product.asp?iProductID=14392

(not for purists) or you can use 2 pieces of duct tape stuck back to back and run down the corner which gives a nice slightly rounded finish.

Or for a nice sharp edge work one wall then the other from the corner onto the wall and then let the lime finish coat go off for a day or 2 and using a finger trowel just clean up the external edge (remember to breath as you will start to shake if not an ruin your nice handy work!)

I am still not sure if this is of any use to you but a nice 24v sds breaker drill will help getting that conc off any wall just be carefull and go easy with it but can cause less damage than hammer and bolster in the right hands.

 

[Sue Wilkinson]

Hi Biff and Chris

Yes, I am in danger of forgetting that the purpose was to get a practice corner to work on! But I've had so little time to do jobs on my own house this year, its all been for customers, that I can't bear the thought of not doing it properly now I've started.

I've looked at that tool Chris, that's exactly what I think it needs. The corner I have to match up to with the new plaster is that sharp. And I was most interested in the breaker drill you suggested. At the end of day 3 I have removed a lot of the stuff, but there is as much again. Is that something I would buy to use with my normal drill or a different sort of machine that I could hire?

I did get carried away with my post! I was so glad to get out of the dust for a while. The reason I started it was to ask about the floor. But Biff's timely reminder about what I SHOULD be doing, and Chris's suggestions have made it worth while.

Still got the floor to make look respectable for another year or so though. So anyone else with any ideas for that, please contribute.

Sue

 

[Gervase]

Dunno about the concrete, but can't you nag the client about the dead sharp corner? it'll look horrible and, without a staff bead, it will be brittle as hell.
Apropos the breaker drill, B&Q have a rotary SDS hammer drill on sale now for under forty quid. That will cope with concrete render provided you don't flog the motor until it overheats - five minutes hammering and five minutes rest should do the trick.
Or you could hire a proper demolition drill (and builld up your biceps) for around the same money for two days. That will certainly do the job - but will require some care with use and it's a hefty machine.

 

[Sue Wilkinson]

I know what you mean, but its one side of the front door, and I've only had to take the plaster off up to waist height at this point. So there is a complete opposite edge and half of this one left with dead sharp edges.

The stone I've exposed below is actually shaped into a lovely curved joint, but has been covered up with a very thick layer of plaster. I'm worried anyway because its a very thick piece of plaster at the corner. If I got them to agree to me removing the rest of it so that I could plaster the round curved corner, the opposite side would look odd, and that can't be changed because of the stairs.

I've never used a hammer drill, too scared I'd destroy the wall. Does one just drill a lot of holes in the cement and then go at it with the cold chisel and hammer? or will the action actually start to remove the render as the holes are drilled? Will it damage the stone walls?

Sue

 

[CHRIS]

I would try and get the best drill you can afford as like most things you get what you pay for, I have one of these

http://www.powertoolsuk.co.uk/webcat/details.asp?ProductCode=BHR200SJE&ID=1602

and have used it every day for 2 years for drilling into reinforced concrete etc on sites with no problems, it is quite light as well so good for holding above your head and also cordless so much better. I would not bother hiring one as it will come in useful in the future and also it will cost about 40 per weekend plus drill bits and the agro of picking it up etc.

 

[GK]

Sue, what has become known as SDS is a hammer drill with rotary stop and no chuck, so you have to buy the special drill bits or chisels.

You can use one as a 'regular' hammer drill, which hammers the bit as it drills, or just as a chisel with a high rate of small hits.

Once you have a small opening into the render you can chisel away at the render / brick junction sideways on. No hole drilling is involved (except perhaps initially).

I've used a mortar rake tool with an sds drill successfully without damage to the brickwork.

A word about cordless ones though: the batteries are fine if they are used regularly, discharged and re-charged. For occasional users, the batteries often 'die' before their time and it can get quite costly.

In my opinion an SDS used carefully is perfectly controllable and you're at no more ,and in some cases less risk, than if you use a hammer and chisel.

Make sure you get one with a clutch. I have a £19.99 cheapie from Screwfix which sprains your arm if the drill bit jams. Not so with the Bosch, which will simply stop turning.

 

[Moo]

Cordless drills. He's absolutely right!

We discovered that to our cost, so now we discharge the thing totally after every job (quite simple - just tie some string round the trigger and leave it somewhere where the noise won't get on your nerves).

(It does, actually, say in the instructions that one should totally discharge and re-charge three or four times to get optimum performance from the battery)

 

[NT]

SDS: use a chisel in it, not a drill bit. Be sure to get one with rotostop. Also be sure to get one that locks the chisel in position, there are cheapos that stop the rotation but the chisel is free to wander round in use. OK for points but not for flat chisels.

Weight is a real issue with sds drills, if youre using one professionally stay away from anything that is > 2.3kg. Unless youre a weight lifter.

Cordless: avoid these unless there is a real reason to use them. Batteries have much less energy storage (power x time) than can be got from mains operation, and an equivalent quality product is much more money with batteries, as batteries arent cheap.

Discharging batteries before recharge: the general thinking now is this has not turned out to be the best way to run batteries. This is only releveant for NiCds, other battery types have little or no memory effect.

Full capacity is had after a handful of use cycles, so the first week of use may deliver smaller charges. This does NOT mean a battery should be repeatedly charged and discharged every cycle, which would dramatically reduce battery life.


NT

 

[CHRIS]

Get a few diffrent widths of SDS chisel bits 1" and 4" and keep the shank oiled, also get one of these

http://www.toolspot.co.uk/product/3pc-sds-adaptor-and-chuck

for regular drill bits which is handy if the drill is light enough.

Once again get the best you can afford as you will kick yourself when it breaks after 3 weeks (happened to me with a Ryobi 18v drill - piece of $£%^)

A friend just got some Milwaukee stuff direct from the USA saved about £400 on the cost and got some UK power chargers in with it - I will find out the place but they are on to the UK market and know all about the import tax etc. He is a roofing chippy on new builds uses it all day and loves the stuff. cordless stuff has the best batteries on the market.

 

[NT]

re direct imports, bear in mind you'll pay duty on the way in. And for mains goods, US is 110v 60Hz, UK is 240v 50Hz. The frequency difference doesnt matter for chargers but does for mains motors.

NT

 

[CHRIS]

I found this out the expensive way when we moved from the USA to here that only my cordless was ok, the wifes hairdrier etc and all my electricals had to be replaced except my MAC which you can flipm from 110 to 240v.

Cost me a fortune!!!!

the duty is still cheaper than what we pay here and some companies sort that out for you when the mail it.

Has anyone used the new bosch 32v cordless saws etc, I saw one yesterday looks good.