Oil Storage Tanks: Steel or plastic ?

[ian]

Slightly off forum, but I am sure there are many domestic oil users here. We will need to replace/move our oil tanks, currently 2 x 1250 litre single skin metal tanks, at least 25 years old but in good condition, to comply with current building regs distance from building rules when we start a kitchen rebuild. I am not sure if we can avoid using a bunded tank yet, but I will be contacting several tank service companies for site survey to find out. I am not sure whether to replace the tanks. If so should I stick with, I guess, a more expensive steel tank or to go for one of the grotesque plastic ones. We have heard recently of several cases where the modern plastic tanks have failed, one even on first filling, and wonder what experiences/ anecdotes are out there. What would your preference be?

 

[Flyfisher]

I'm sure the oil tank companies will confirm the current regulations but my understanding is that the installation must now be bunded, although I don't think that actually means a bunded (double-skinned) tank. Basically, the installation must be capable of preventing any oil escaping if the tank develops a leak. The siting of the tank will usually determine the easiest bunding arrangement. I presume there must be some indication if the inner skin of a bunded tank has failed otherwise how would you know there is no more safety factor?

As for being grotesque, it's all subjective of course, but I can't see much difference between the steel or plastic ones. Neither are exactly things of beauty and all will benefit from being hidden in some way or other.

We have a rather large 2600 litre plastic tank that's surplus to requirements (more than half full of oil due to a timing miscalculation when we changed over to gas) but is proving more difficult to get rid of than I thought it would be. Not far from north Essex though. :wink:

 

[Feltwell]

If the need to be bunded is why your current tanks might not be reuseable, why not build a bund round them? That's all I've ever seen in commercial applications - a brick bund constructed around the tank to contain any spill. Not very pretty but then neither is an oil tank!

 

[MdB]

Follow the manufacturers instructions for mounting. When they say to mount on a completely flat surface they mean a completely flat surface and not two concrete lintels. Our 5 year old plastic tank was mounted this way (not by us) and split across the top on one edge. We were very luck not to lose 500l of oil into the local stream. This would have been rather expensive in fines...

 

[AMc]

I was told by my last oil delivery man that he was prepared to deliver to our large single skin tank in situ but if we were to do a conversion of the coachhouse (next to it) into residential accommodation and moved the tank he would be legally prevented from supplying oil as this was a 'new installation'/
I thought it sounded like rubbish but as he holds the keys to the pump he will have a say in the final decision.

Our single skin tank is sitting with a couple of hundred litres of oil in it while I work out how to scrap it now that we're off oil.

 

[MdB]

Our single skin tank is sitting with a couple of hundred litres of oil in it while I work out how to scrap it now that we're off oil.

Step 1: Find a neighbour that wants some half price oil.
Step 2: Find some 50L barrels (I got some from the local farm)
Step 3: Fill, wheelbarrow, empty - repeat.

I did this with 500l out of our split tank and made a few £ on the oil.

Alternative:
Step 1: Phone around oil firms and get quotes on emptying the tank.
Step 2: There is no step 2 as the cheapest I could find was £300 cost with no discount for the value of the oil.

 

[Flyfisher]

Unfortunately, we seem to be of the last in the village to connect to mains gas, so I'll have to look further afield for someone who uses oil.

I tried the alternative of phoning the oil company but they weren't interested in taking it away, only delivering more.

I've been wondering about using it in the tractor but it would take me years to get through c.1500 litres of the stuff. I wonder if I could use it in the car?

 

[AMc]

Many thanks MdB!

Unfortunately, we seem to be of the last in the village to connect to mains gas, so I'll have to look further afield for someone who uses oil.

I tried the alternative of phoning the oil company but they weren't interested in taking it away, only delivering more.

I've been wondering about using it in the tractor but it would take me years to get through c.1500 litres of the stuff. I wonder if I could use it in the car?

AFAIK heating oil isn't directly compatible with vehicles but this suggests it might be blended?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heating_oil

 

[Pford75]

Unfortunately, we seem to be of the last in the village to connect to mains gas, so I'll have to look further afield for someone who uses oil.

I'm not far from you FF....and I have some buckets

 

[Flyfisher]

You'll need a lot of buckets!

But if you were serious, a fuel bowser should be cheap enough to hire and I've got a trailer large enough for the empty tank . . .

 

[ian]

It seems the regulations are not so onerous after all and we may be able to reuse the existing tanks ( after refurbishment), just moving them the requisite distance from the new structure. If the tank is less than 3400 litres, it should be placed more than 760mm of a boundary. This distance assumes that there are no flu outlets or buildings between the tank and the boundary, and not fitted any closer than 1.8 metres to a building. Where these clearances cannot be achieved, protection must be provided by means of a 30 minutes fire-resistant barrier which extends at least 300mm above and beyond the ends of the tank.
Oftec has an 8 point risk assessment to qualify the need for bunding, to be completed by a registered engineer: 2500 litres or less,Within 10 metres of controlled water, Located where spillage could run into an open drain or to a loose manhole cover, Within 50 metres of a borehole or spring, Over hard ground or hard surfaced ground that could enable spillage run-off to reach controlled water, Located in a position where the vent pipe outlet is not visible from the fill point, Supplying heating oil to a building other than a single family dwelling, and a catch all for common sense (where available :lol: ) of any hazard particular to the site.
On the aesthic front I still fid a muted green steel tank preferable to the lurid oversized yoghurt pot of the plastic tanks. As for the integrity of the bunding, I would imagine that the outer skin is more vunerable to failure from puncture/crush/UV degratation than the hidden inner skin.

 

[Feltwell]

I wonder if I could use it in the car?

Only if you want to get prosecuted if you get stopped for a diesel check! I believe it's basically red diesel, OK for the relatively crude engine on your tractor but not your car. I've used heating oil on a old stationary engine driving a pump with no problem.

Admittedly you're unlikely to be stopped for a diesel check in a car (it's usually commercial vehicles that get pulled for this) but it's not recommended at all. The (extremely lazy) ex-Sales Director of my company took a Peugeot 406 pool car out one day, couldn't be bothered to put fuel in it and ran out in the middle of the countryside, but outside a farm. He bought some red diesel off them and carried on his way.

It may have been the running out of diesel that did it (modern common-rail injector pumps don't appreciate running dry) but the car's performance was dreadful, until after about 50 miles it wouldn't do more than 30mph, then it conked out completely. He did serious damage to the engine, we ended up selling the car as spares or repair.

 

[skier-hughes]

Admittedly you're unlikely to be stopped for a diesel check in a car (it's usually commercial vehicles that get pulled for this)

You want to come and live here then, at least once a month we have a stop and search process, with HMRC, (customs, excise), environmental health, sniffer dogs, number plate recognition for tax etc the whole works, with police bikers and high speed cars to chase those who turn around and drive off looking dodgy!!!!

We have a lot of trouble being just on the West Mids boundary with criminals popping over, flytippers coming to our green lands, unlicensed waste carriers, not so many lorries carrying illegals any more as the truck stop has closed, but this was a big get out point at one time etc etc.

 

[Penners]

I've been wondering about using [heating oil] in the tractor but it would take me years to get through c.1500 litres of the stuff. I wonder if I could use it in the car?

So far as I know, 28-second home heating oil and road diesel are basically the same stuff. However, I suspect that running a car on HHO wouldn't do it a great deal of good, because the oil doesn't have various engine lubrication additives that are put into the road fuel.

You would also be breaking the law, because you wouldn't have paid the road fuel tax. And there are indicators (not sure whether it's a dye nowadays or an indicator molecule) in the HHO that would give the game away (in the unlikely event that you were checked).

 

[worms]

[(not sure whether it's a dye nowadays or an indicator molecule...in the unlikely event that you were checked).

Home heating oil looks the same as road diesel, so I am pretty sure it is an indicator molecule that is added. HMRC would clearly take a dim view of using it on the road and tend to make as much of an example as possible of those they catch, pour enourager les autres.

I've also heard tell that traces of the marker can remain in the tank for a long time after the diesel has run through, so it is not simply a matter of being able to relax after the next fill from a proper source. Using it on the road (or even putting it in a road car to use off-road) would not be a risk I would be willing to take.

I have done the reverse of putting duty-paid road fuel into the central heating system when I have run out...

 

[Flyfisher]

Oops - I missed out the :wink: at the end of my question about using heating oil in a diesel car. I was thinking more about whether it would actually work rather than the illegality of it. I've read that modern diesels are quite finicky because of modern emission legislation and they have various sensors that can cause the engine to switch off if things are amiss. Ah, the wonders of computerisation!

 

[worms]

I was thinking more about whether it would actually work rather than the illegality of it. I've read that modern diesels are quite finicky...

Time to get your old Land Rover back!

 

[Me!]

It doesn't need anything as clever as an indicator molecule or even a dye to know if an engine is running on heating oil, the smell of the exhaust gas is a complete give away. I have on several occasions noticed the smell when following tatty old diesel cars, and wondered how they ever got away with it. I believe that most modern diesel engines would not be very happy with the stuff, but that older ones will usually work fine although there are stories of the fuel pumps wearing out faster than expected. If you want to run your tractor on heating oil on your own private land, then I'd suggest trying mixing it with a bit of vegetable cooking oil (just the cheapest you can get from a food supermarket) to add lubrication and also make it more viscous.

 

[Flyfisher]

I think diesel is a '35 second" oil whereas heating oil is "28 second", so slightly thinner. I know that my tractor fuel pump relies on the fuel itself for lubrication so anything thinner might not do it any good - and I don't want to hasten its demise after 40 years of solid service.

Anyway, all this primarily arose as speculation about how to get rid of unwanted heating oil rather than an alternative fuel for tractor or car. I use so little fuel in the tractor that the fuel cost isn't really an issue, especially as the village garage sells red diesel on the forecourt for 77p/litre and a single jerry can keeps me going for at least a month - and that's during the heavier usage in the summer months). In fact, that, plus free road tax and £47 per year comprehensive insurance, sometimes makes me wonder about getting rid of the car altogether. Until it rains, that is. :wink:

 

[Penners]

free road tax and £47 per year comprehensive insurance, sometimes makes me wonder about getting rid of the car altogether. Until it rains, that is.

Oh, come on FF! Where's your inventiveness... your resourcefulness? There are solutions to the rain problem.