Oh no...not another Plastering thread...

[Woody3]

First of all sorry Chaps & Chapess's, yes it's another plastering thread *hangs head in shame*.

I've done a search, but to no avail, mainly do to the search engine omitting the word "plaster" from the results.

For those of you that don't know, We've recently purchased a 1730's Stone Farmhouse in Derbyshire.

Anyway, I'm a tad confused. The house currently consists of the following:

> Exposed internal brick walls with lime pointing (was cladded in 1980's pine cladding)
> Modern plaster to Stone walls to the internal face of external walls & internal brick walls in 4 rooms
> Lime plaster to Stone walls to the internal face of external walls & internal brick walls in 2 rooms
> Exposed stone work wall (which is an internal wall - was plastered)

With this in mind, I have the following queries in which I'm coming to you guys for some help.

1) On both the exposed brick and stone internal walls which require plastering, could I dryline them, then use DG27 and skim with lime plaster? Or must I use a lime backing coat in lieu of the plasterboard?

2) From the Mikewye website, I've figured out that I need Lime Mortar Haired 3/1 for the backing coat and Lime Plaster 2/1 or 3/2 (is there much difference?) for the final skim. Do you guys normally buy the lime putty separately and do your own mix or do you buy it has readymixed lime mortar/plaster? Is there much difference in time/cost between both?

3) Mikewye (Devon) seems a fair trek for some lime plaster to travel, do any of you guys from this neck of the woods have any local suppliers?

Hope that makes sense (it does at this insanely hour anyway :lol: )

Thanks

 

[MatthewC]

Hi Woody

From my (limited) experience and knowledge, there is no point is drylining and then using any lime product (especially the very expensive DG27) over it as it won't be breathable - you will have the look of lime but it will cost you for no real purpose. Bite the bullet and use lime mortar/plaster over brick/stone wherever you can. I don't like the sound of your external walls with the modern stuff so I hope you don't get any problems. If it will come off, I would do so, but I'm a purist with time on my hands.

I used 3:1 haired for the scratch coat, followed by 3:1 unhaired for the float coat, followed by 3:2 plaster followed by Regency plaster for a really fine finish. I was advised not to use the 2:1 plaster - it's obviously a bit less smooth but I forget if there was any other reason.

I bought the ready mixed mortar because it took one variable out of the equation. Mixing putty and sand would have been cheaper if I knew what I was doing! I bought it in 10 litre tubs (from Mike Wye) which was the most expensive way but I had no way of getting a (cheaper) 900kg dumpy bag off the road. The tubs could be carried by hand (I am now quite fit!) but unloading a huge bag into tubs was back breaking and I decided it wasn't worth it.

I have no view on the distance; it's not very green but the pallet service was most reliable.

See my blog http://houseintheenchantedforest.blogspot.com/ and filter on plastering.

Hope it goes well

Matthew

PS How about some pictures?

 

[GRB]

Hi Woody,

You are very lucky to be in Derbyshire as you have Bleaklow on your doorstep. Give them a try as they have excellent fat lime putty, or premixed mortars.

www.bleaklow.co.uk

Good luck

 

[Feltwell]

You would hope that you'd be able to buy lime in Derbyshire, given how much of the raw material comes out of the ground there!

 

[Woody3]

Well, that's what I thought too.

I'm going to have to give Bleaklow a ring, as from the prices on their website, it is actually cheaper to get it from Devon :?

Have any of you guys done your own mix? There is so much to do here and I don't have an endless supply of money , so I don't mind doing my own mixing if it'll save me a decent amount of money (yes, I'm a tight Northerner as well :lol: )

 

[MdB]

Lots of us here mix our own and you will find quite a disagreement on what is best and what isn't.

Mrs MdB and myself have repointed our house using ordinary builders lime hydrate and builders sand. This has cracked more than I would like but the generally result is fine and is cheap. For structural stuff I use NHL 3.5 (Bradfords sell it but bash them down on price) with sharp sand.

Others here (especially the pros) will only used well aged putty for their mixes. This is fine(?) if the customer is paying for it but personally I can't tell the difference between mixes made of putty and mixes made from hydrate.

I haven't done any plastering so can't really comment on that (some say mixing the hair into your own mix can be a pain). I would suggest getting an experimental bag and having a go and see what happens. The worst will mean you need to scrap it off and start again.

 

[Feltwell]

(yes, I'm a tight Northerner as well :lol: )

Nowt wrong with being a tight Northerner. Some of us fit into this mould perfectly well despite not being all that Northern.

 

[tobydog]

I think the Tight Virus is actually omnipresent. I've been showing symptoms for some time now in the recently renamed East Angular. Bring it on :lol:

 

[Flyfisher]

. . . in the recently renamed East Angular.

Not that recent really. I'd forgotten it was so long ago. Better still, I wish I'd forgotten it all together.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/2055968.stm

 

[Moo]

We cherish the memory of a (very) local lady who used to refer to things like 'a sebaceous border', 'that reticulated lorry' and 'old-timers disease'.
I just wish we'd written them all down.

 

[Andrew Bodenham]

Woody3,

If you are plastering (or replastering) the inside of external walls then you have an opportunity to add insulation to your house. This could be a conventional (modern) approach such a insulated plasterboard or rigid slab insulation behind drylining, but I'd be investigating some of the hemp-lime products which are now available. These are applied like a traditional plaster but have the advantage of improved thermal performance. No personal experience of this type of product, yet, but on paper they appear an attractive proposition.

 

[Woody3]

MdB - Thanks for that. I'm now pricing up the difference in cost between the 3 options (Using Lime Putty, Ready-mixed Lime Mortar and using NHL 2 / 3.5 with sand) and shall report back.

Andrew - With using plasterboard/insulated plasterboard will the external walls still be able to breathe? As this is my main concern (although saying that all the mortar joints in the stonework is cement and not lime based...)

 

[Gervase]

I've done many rooms with wood-fibre board (Heraklith or one of the generic equivalents) over flax or sheepswool insulation on battens and it works a treat. Breathability is maintained, and the surface is a perfect key for a lime plaster. Just remember to tape all joints with jute tape to avoid cracks in the plaster.

 

[Feltwell]

Good to see you back posting Gervase.

 

[piper]

Good to see you back posting Gervase.

I heartily second that - I have learnt a lot from this forum, and much of it from Gervase.

Replying to an earlier post

Lots of us here mix our own and you will find quite a disagreement on what is best and what isn't.
Mrs MdB and myself have repointed our house using ordinary builders lime hydrate and builders sand.

Buying a bag of ordinary hydrated lime from the builders' merchant and dumping into a plastic dustbin of water makes excellent poor man's or tight Northerner's lime putty. You need to make sure it's not old stock, though I think fears of it all 'going off' in the bag can be exaggerated. As long as the putty is kept covered with water, this keeps indefinitely, and last year happily survived overwintering in the garage, with temperatures sometimes down to -10. Although for best quality work, the professionals may well prefer to buy ready mixed putty, this home-made stuff, mixed 3:1 with sharp sand, has worked a treat for repairing, for 'dubbing-out', and with added hair as a base coat on our interior limestone rubble walls. I also used it as a first coat onto laths for a ceiling - applied myself with reasonable success, though in the end I chickened out and got a professional in to finish (who used putty in tubs, and made beautiful job). I've also succesfully used the home-made putty for my learner's efforts at a smooth finish on smaller areas of repair, mixed 1:1 with silver sand.

 

[worms]

Buying a bag of ordinary hydrated lime from the builders' merchant and dumping into a plastic dustbin of water makes excellent poor man's or tight Northerner's lime putty. ...this home-made stuff, mixed 3:1 with sharp sand, has worked a treat for repairing, for 'dubbing-out', and with added hair as a base coat on our interior limestone rubble walls.

And the home-made putty can be diluted 50/50 with water for a very quick and easy lime-wash. Every period property should have a putty bin in the garage!

 

[rebeccac]

if you want to save cash make your own lime putty.We've done this for our place in Italy and the plaster has been excellent.

I mix hydrated lime with water using a mortar whisk then leave it for as long as possible but we did run out last year and only had 24 hrs.It seemed pretty good to me and a 2.50 euro sack of lime makes 2 full 25kg buckets of lime putty! About 1 pound a bucket.

I've got more info on my blog

www.myabruzzohome.blogspot.com

 

[Woody3]

Thanks for all of the replies; I didn't realise there were so many options. I've got to do a lot of research/pricing up etc. Rebecca your blog is very interesting!

Of course, with being a tight Northerner, I'm getting excited about the hydrated lime home-made putty :wink: and having a crack at it myself.

I'll do a google search for an how to guide for lime plastering, but if anyone could give me any pointers from any previous experience, they'd be much appreciated.

Again thanks for the many replies. Off to the builders merchants in the morning for somne hydrated lime. By the way, is hydrated lime also called non-hydraulic lime? :?

 

[FamilyWiggs]

It depends of what sort of finish you are after Woody and what the substate is. My very amateur attempts were fine because I was after a "vernacular" finish on rubble walls.

Broad tips include making sure that the wall is kept damp, by misting with a garden sprayer. Push the plaster on firmly with the trowel and make sure it is pressed ito all of the countours of the stones. Mist frequently as you go. Don't allow it to dry out too quickly - it takes a few days to go off. Use the trowel to press in any cracking each day. Scratch the, er, scratch coat to provide a key for the top coat once it is almost dry. You can get a very smooth top coat if you keep working it if that is what you want.

The great thing about lime plastering is you have time. So take it. The little gypsum plastering I've tried was a stressful disaster as you are working against a clock as it goes off. Lime is much nicer to work with and quite therapeutic once you get the hang of it.

The biggest tip of all is to come back here and post some pics of your progress! :wink:

I'll venture an answer that, yes, hydrated lime from t'builders merchant is non-hydraulic lime - but the purists may now split hairs and prove my ignorance!

 

[MatthewC]

I'll do a google search for an how to guide for lime plastering, but if anyone could give me any pointers from any previous experience, they'd be much appreciated.

I did some lime plastering for the first time recently. As FW says, take your time and enjoy it, the end result is most satisfying! The one caution I would add is that it is very tiring if you are not used to it, so don't expect to coat a huge wall in a single day - I can still feel how tender my elbow joints are! You have to press it on firmly, moving upwards and then to the side as you lift the trowel.

The other thing you might have trouble with is the consistency if you are mixing your own - I used ready mixed stuff which was expensive but at least it saved one hassle (and I've had enough of those anyway!).

You might have seen my blog, but here's the first post about my lime plastering: http://houseintheenchantedforest.blogspot.com/2012/01/lime-plaster-and-grouting.html

Matthew