Novice question: Filling around replacement pulleys on sash windows

[popguru]

Hello there! We moved into an Edwardian doer-upper a few years ago and are slowly renovating and reinstating as we go.

I’m currently freeing up a sash window in the bathroom, which has clearly had its pulleys replaced at some point. I’ll be fitting new ones (Mighton) along with cord and re-weighting have noticed that the wood around the pulleys is a bit ‘chewed up’, presumably where the original was dug out in the past.

I’d prefer to tidy the perimeter up before finish fitting the pulleys and decorating because, frankly, I’m awful at painting and would prefer not to have to mask the pulley faces whilst filling and would probably like to be able to remove the pulleys in future rather than having them painted in.

I can’t think of a way to easily do this: I have tried using grease proof paper around the pulley whilst filling, to no avail and if I hold a 1” filling knife in the pulley-less hole and fill up to that, obviously my filler doesn’t stay put as soon as I move it.

Should I just caulk around the pulley in situ and get a competent adult to neatly decorate? Is there an added draft proofing benefit to doing this?

Or is there a cunning product/method which would enable me to fill with the pulleys out? In terms of the scale of ‘chewing’ it’s about the same as any YouTube videos which demonstrate removing old pulleys: not catastrophic but enough for her indoors to see from three rooms away.

Any suggestions gratefully received!

 

[mardinor]

Fill in several goes, building up until the last fill holds and doesn't slump. Make a thicker mix.

Or, even better, convince her indoors it's patina and cherish teh character it brings to your period home.

 

[popguru]

Haha! Thanks for that sound advice. I’ve had another play around with some Toupret wood filler with a couple of drops of added water. I knew that dehumidifier would come in useful one day. Anyway. I had a go earlier using two of the flexible Japanese style filling knives. I taped greaseproof paper to one side of the larger one and wedged it down the side of the pulley and made a ‘worm’ from the filler and packed and smoothed it out. I’m hoping that the grease proof knife stays put for long enough and I can gently wriggle it out once the filler has gone off, without dislodging the filler.

Oh, to have just a bit of hand to eye coordination… I’m so ham fisted!!

 

[mardinor]

Sounds like you're on the right track. Two-part epoxy (eg Ronseal wood filler) will set in 10 mins so faster to build up layers with several small batches, but plaster-based filler will work too. Patience is your friend. That's the great thing about DIY - the trades need to know how to be efficient, we can go for iterative, precision bodging

 

[revuqil]

It sounds like you are making progress. Using a thicker mix and building up the filler in layers might help, or consider using a two-part epoxy for a faster setting. And hey, embracing the "patina" adds character to your period home, right? Keep at it, and remember, DIY is all about patience and precision.

 

[Toby Newell]

Sounds like you're on the right track. Two-part epoxy (eg Ronseal wood filler)

Negatory.

Ronseal High Performance Wood Filler (green tin) is not an epoxy, it's a benzyl peroxide cured polyester, big difference. Yes, they both smell, both need mixing with a catalyst and both go very hard, but epoxy is both much harder and also much more elastic. Cosmetically, polyester is fine 99% of the time. Epoxies are best when the area is very large, prone to a lot of movement or where it needs to be drilled, screwed, or otherwise carved or shaped.

Would need to see photos.

If you need a strong fix, next to something that moves and vibrates (wobbling weights) then use a two part filler.

I just used a two part polyester filler 30 mins ago. (Morrells, but I have used dozens of kgs of Ronseal before and hundreds of kgs of U Pol Smooth 7 - all same thing)

Epoxy fillers are more expensive but better if you want to fill, let cure, then machine out any hole / gap etc you need too.

On vertical surfaces you need to mix smaller amounts and do more fills as gravity induced slumping is more of an issue.

 

[Toby Newell]

FYI 3C Sealants (coincidentally I am staying away working 15 mins away from them) are great and technically knowledgeable, they stock a wide range of epoxy repair fillers.

3C Sealants Sealants Online -

buy mastics silicones sealants, shower and bath waterproofing materials online

www.sealantsonline.co.uk

 

[Toby Newell]

Another top tip.

If you have a large area to fill, you can partially screw in some small screws to act like mini rebar, plasterboard screws are good as they have a self cutting thin shank and large head. This gives the filler a lot more surface area to adhere to. This resists slumping during curing and provides protection against falling out in service, due to movement, when cured. Alternatively you can use 3.2mm lost head T10 torx (star) screws.

 

[popguru]

Thank you ALL for the invaluable advice and encouragement, what a lovely welcome. I’d say the gaps are small-ish, more ish than small. They vary. I think somebody has used a chisel at some time to yank the pulleys out, to be honest.

I actually used a bit of leftover Klingstrip to remove the paint from pulleys and surrounding areas, which worked very well.

As suggested above, the beauty of doing it ourselves with extra patience and trial error is that we gain knowledge and experience as well as satisfaction. When we moved in, we had chunks of coving missing in the hallway. During lockdown, and armed with some simple plaster based filler and a borrowed plasterer’s float thing, slowly and carefully built up the missing section, and a corner, a cm at a time. Once I realised that if it was low I could add a bit and if it was high I could sand it a bit, I made a decent job in the end.

Out of interest, does anybody have any recommendations for a material that most fillers don’t stick to for this kind of thing? I almost convinced myself to find a local plastics machine shop to make me a pulley face sized block that I could just screw in and fill up to, but couldn’t think of a material that would be suitable.! I need to get out more don’t I?

 

[Toby Newell]

Thank you ALL for the invaluable advice and encouragement, what a lovely welcome. I’d say the gaps are small-ish, more ish than small. They vary. I think somebody has used a chisel at some time to yank the pulleys out, to be honest.

I actually used a bit of leftover Klingstrip to remove the paint from pulleys and surrounding areas, which worked very well.

As suggested above, the beauty of doing it ourselves with extra patience and trial error is that we gain knowledge and experience as well as satisfaction. When we moved in, we had chunks of coving missing in the hallway. During lockdown, and armed with some simple plaster based filler and a borrowed plasterer’s float thing, slowly and carefully built up the missing section, and a corner, a cm at a time. Once I realised that if it was low I could add a bit and if it was high I could sand it a bit, I made a decent job in the end.

Out of interest, does anybody have any recommendations for a material that most fillers don’t stick to for this kind of thing? I almost convinced myself to find a local plastics machine shop to make me a pulley face sized block that I could just screw in and fill up to, but couldn’t think of a material that would be suitable.! I need to get out more don’t I?

Anything silicone. Or coat a plastic in silicone, but don't get on any areas you want to paint.