Nostalgia of Mud - Does painting beams etc pt 2

[robson2205]

Thanks for all the good advice last week, I am not sure what to do with the letter that was kindly posted but I'll come back to that in a bit. I'm still waiting to hear what the local CO believes is necessary to apply for LBC for (from my long list!) but then it would seem that its a good idea to at least check with them on everything I want to do (which I would've done anyway).

Anyway further on from the damp/moisture issues in my living room...I took up the carpet, took up the hardboard and found some good floorboards but some chipboard and some bits of old cupboard and skirting board as replacement (really some people are such cheapskates)...anyway I took up what I could unscrew and below the 'floorboards' I found....mud. No concrete as I had feared but not the hard, beaten dusty stuff that I had hoped for either. Instead it is damp, crumbly garden earth and a hell of a lot if it too :?

So the floor joists are sitting in this earth and as my living room is at least 3 feet above ground level I can only assume there is at the least the same depth of mud! The question is should I be scared or relieved about this? I have some photos which if anyone can tell me how I can post them on here or I can email them if you're interested.

HELP! :shock:

 

[MdB]

Pictures would be a good idea. See here:
http://periodpropertyshop.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=7515&start=0

If you have wooden joists resting on damp mud then this is a problem that you want to sort out as a priority. Are the joists actually being supported by the mud or can you just remove the mud to leave the joists supported on something else? Any signs of rot?

 

[robson2205]

[Open Image] [Hosted by PhotoGalaxy.com]

:?

And outside (the internal floor would be in line with the top of the brick):


[Open Image] [Hosted by PhotoGalaxy.com]

 

[MdB]

Guess mode = on

Old floor + joists rotted out

Bodger fitted new joists with blob of cement onto soil and chipboard on top. I doubt there is any DPM under the joists either.

The new work looks iffy to me (others with more experience will advise better) and will probably need to be put right. (Dig out some of the soil, dwarf walls fitted, joists on top, underfloor ventilation added??)

You also need to consider the old floors. If this section has rotted out in the past, more will probably do so in the future. This means inspection and possible remedial work such as added ventilation.

Guess mode = off

Others will advise better on this than me.

 

[NT]

Normally one would find empty space there, other than the supports for the joists. Odd that soil comes far above the external level. Suspended timber floors normally need ventilation.


NT

 

[robson2205]

So finding soil is kind of OK then?? I must admit I didn't know what to expect.

However, I did of course realise this was a bodge as soon as I saw it, the concrete blobs are neither use nor ornament and the joists are merely (loosely) resting on them. But should the soil be damp? Or is this the natural release of rainwater I read about so often? I have checked outside and there doesn't appear to be any obvious place that water could ingress - all the paintwork looks intact and there is no bubbling or damp feeling to any of the surfaces.

I know my neighbour has found a concrete floor in their house (in its former life it would have been one open hall house) and my kitchen is floored with concrete but at ground level. I'm a bit confused now...if I start digging up all this mud won't the building fall down??! :shock:

 

[chuckey]

How old is the house? I was thinking that the original floor would have been flags laid on the earth which were replaced by the nasty stuff you found. After 1850 most people understood about venting suspended floors.
I would remove enough earth to allow an under floor vent to the outside. Put a sheet of DPC material over the earth and under the vent, then support each joist on a paving stone every 3' or so. Use a jack and extra weights to ensure the paving stone is sitting firmly on the plastic sheet, fill joist to P. stone gap with wood / bricks / cement / or whatever. Just make sure it can't drift out with floor vibration.
Frank

 

[Penners]

I'm not sure about the suggestion of covering the soil with a DPM. This could exacerbate any damp problem in the soil under the floor.

I think I would go with MdB's suggestion. Dig out the soil to a depth that allows pressure treated floor joists to be mounted on dwarf walls or piers, with a couple of inches of fresh air between the bottom of the joists and the soil. Obviously you'll have to dig deeper at the locations of the dwarf walls or piers so that you can pour good foundations for them. Judging by your photo of the internal floor height, you shouldn't have any trouble doing this digging without going below foundation level.

When you mount the joists on top of the walls or piers, put DPC material between the bearing faces of the joists and the bricks.

Alternatively, if your brick plinth is stout enough to take them, you could hang the new joists on joist hangers - once again, leave the suggested air gap underneath them.

Make sure you install some air bricks in the brick plinth, sufficient to give a good circulation of air under the floor. If there is more than one external wall to the room so much the better, as this will give a crossflow of air.

Now fix your new floor, preferably avoiding bits of wardrobe.