Nose job? (updated photos)

[inwood]

Flight of stairs up to second floor have been well used during works to the house and despite being covered in bricks, lime plaster, debris from removing artex, old wallpaper, etc. retain a certain charm. However where the noses of each step have worn down over the years this has weakened the nose and some have now broken off.

Does anyone have any advice about how to replace nosings of wooden steps? I've read about two alternatives:
1. Simply cut the nose off. Drill in some wooden dowels and glue a new nose on.
2. Cut the broken section out to about 1 inch beyond riser. Cuts to be made at 45 degree angle. Fit new section into rebated cut out and glue in place.
The second would appear to be more sturdy but how would you make the cuts at 45 degrees?

Any experience/advice gratefully received.

 

[chuckey]

The second way superficialy appears better, but very hard to do. Also fixing the two 45 deg surfaces properly would seem to be impossible (unless you drive in long fixings from the front edge. So I would go with the first method. I personaly would go with 3 1/2" or 4" screws driven in from the front with their heads counterbored and plugged. Cut the ends of the new bits at 45 degrees so as the screws are tightened the joints pull tight.
Depending on how much original nosing is left when the worn bit is cut out, there might not be enough room to plane them down in-situ, so I would make a profile gauge. Screw the new piece of wood through its back to a nice large piece of scrap and plane the new profile on your bench.
Screw a piece of 1" X 1" underneath the repair, to re-inforce the riser/tread joint.
quick and dirty?
Frank

 

[Ian Bond]

The technique I've seen involves cutting out just the mid-section of the worn nosing, but not the full width of the tread, which will be housed in at least one string. The risers may also be housed into the treads.

A jigsaw with the blade set at a 60 degree angle is used to cut out the damaged section of tread. A series of holes are drilled at a 60 degree angle to form a slot at one end of the cut line, allowing you to start the jigsaw cut. A batten is pinned across the tread to guide the jigsaw.

The jigsaw is then used to cut in from the front of the tread - you'll need to reset the angle of the blade at one end.

NB: The jigsaw will cut into the riser, and this will need to be filled later!!

You then need to cut and fit a new section of tread, with a nosing shaped on the leading edge, and perhaps a housing in the underside for the riser to fit into.

The new piece is glued in place, and the repair planed flush.

I can send you the details and drawings if the above description hasn't put you off. It's not a repair that I'd relish attempting to be honest, especially on a precious / historic staircase.

How bad is the damage - is it superficial or are the stairs now dangerous to use?

 

[Penners]

I echo Ian's question - how bad is the wear? And how much nosing still remains?

If there was sufficient overhang, I think I might try remoulding the existing front edge with a router or moulding plane before I tried anything else. But that may be impossible if there's not enough nosing left to work with.

If that is the case, then I would do the job broadly as described by chuckey above - although I feel that his screw lengths are a bit excessive! I would simply cut off the nosing with a vertical cut, then glue and screw on new nosings.

Any attempt at an angled cut and plant-on will make the job much more difficult - unless, of course, you're a really skilled woodworker.

 

[Ian Bond]

If in doubt, it's better to leave it alone, or employ a skilled joiner to do the work, rather than making a complete b@lls of a good staircase.

How would you make the vertical cut - use a jigsaw with a guide batten, having drilled a hole to start the cut?

That does sound a much easier method to me than trying to do the angled cuts.

But we like to do it the hard way don't we?!

... no ?

... just me again

 

[Penners]

How would you make the vertical cut ...?

Here's what I would use. The problem with using an electric jigsaw is that you'll never get right to the edge of the step, because the platen/body of the tool will get in the way.

Japanese saws have the advantage of cutting on the pull stroke, with a very thin, incredibly sharp blade (that has virtually no set on the teeth). I find this makes for a thin kerf and an accurate cut.

 

[Ian Bond]

Great. I want one of those!!!

Looks like a tool that I've seen recommended for trimming the bottom of doors without taking them off their hinges.

 

[Penners]

I love mine. Just remember it cuts on the pull, and don't try to force the push - this can cause the blade to whip. The trick is lightness of touch - let the saw do the work.

Sorry if that's bl**dy obvious!

 

[Ian Bond]

All hints and advice welcome - nowt's obvious until you know.

On that theme . . . any tips on how to start the cut, as inwood will be in a tight spot, trying to cut that nosing off between the strings of the staircase....

 

[inwood]

Thanks for the advice chaps.

Strings! you'll be lucky. It's a fairly old staircase (although I wouldn't describe it as historic). It's been built onto oak supports which run from the brick infill stud wall on the right of the stairs into the wall on the left. Other than that the risers and goings seem to be of fairly standard construction. Some photos with areas of damaged nosings shown outlined in blue. Area outlined in red is where I spliced in a thin bit of oak to strengthen a split in a step which was slowly deteriorating.

Without blowing my own trumpet my woodworks actually not that bad. Just spent yesterday hand making architraves to match one set that had been removed and replaced with modern alternatives. All the architraves in the hallway now match.

I think I'm going to go with the 45 degree support route after having practiced on a piece of scrap timber. I have a fine toothed tenon saw which should give me a very clean cut. I think the best way to achieve the cut is by temporarily pinning a bit of timber cut to 45 degrees next to the cut I need to make and using this as a support for the saw whilst the cut is made. I shouldn't then need to cut through the riser. The cut at the back can then be pared back with a chisel or router to make a simple lap joint. Once glued and planed down it should be as strong as the original step. I like Chuckey's idea of the addition of a bit of timber under the nose as well, the words braces and belts spring to mind.

 

[inwood]

Thought I'd post an update to my nose job post with some photos now the house is finished:

The patination police will be proud of me as all the original dents, nicks, holes, etc. are still visible. I even found where a candle had been left at the top step only to partially burn the step, riser and nose above it.

For those interested in the method I used to repair the noses. I used a 45 degree cut either side of the area I removed and a butt joint at the rear reinforced with screws which were then covered with plugs. The new pieces were glued in place and then sanded down to finish.

The new steps in the first and second picture are to replace a staircase which once existed here but was removed when this doorway was bricked up - I've reinstated this access to the room.

 

[JoceAndChris]

What a difference - inspirational photos, thanks inwood. Love the colour of that wood now! What did you use on it?

I've got a staircase like the one in your "before" pics.

Can we see the rest of your house? I think you're only the second person on here lately who talks of being finished (the other being Jon Maine) - must be an amazing feeling!

 

[inwood]

Yes, will try to get some photos on soon. I cleaned the old paint/varnish off the stairs with nitromors, then used two thin coats of linseed oil before using Osmo Polyx oil for the top coat.

Pretty much all the people who saw the staircase in its before state kept asking when I was replacing the staircase and couldn't believe I was planning to repair it. I'm pleased I did as it definitely adds to the character of the house.

 

[robgil]

thats a fantastic job , did you manage to get an even finish or is the carpet there to hide where the old carpet used to be?

 

[MdB]

Big thumbs up to that job. Well worth the time and effort.

 

[Penners]

Excellent job, inwood. The nose remodelling is worthy of Joan Rivers herself.

But...finished?? I thought yours was a period property? They're never finished - simply (as our thespian friends would say) "resting".

 

[inwood]

thats a fantastic job , did you manage to get an even finish or is the carpet there to hide where the old carpet used to be?

No most of the timber ended up the same colour. If you look carefully (under the carpet) there is a slight colour difference in the timber between carpetted area and non carpetted area but I guess this is partly to do with oxidisation and sun bleaching of the timber over the staircases history. If you really get down on your hands and knees you can also see where three different widths of stair rods have been fitted over the years as the holes for the fixings are still visible.

I was tempted to leave it all in its natural state but wanted to minimise further wear on the noses as well as 'tying' in (decoratively speaking) the new steps with the old staircase.

 

[Ian Bond]

Excellent result - thanks for the update and pictures.

You deserve a medal from the patination police for that

btw - how did you get a neat cut at the back of the section of nosing you removed - it would have to be done carefully to get a perfect butt joint?

Cheers

Ian