Newbie - How much will it cost?

[Anonymous]

Hi.. This is my first visit to your forum, so sorry if this question sounds silly.
I have the chance to buy an old farmhouse. 4 or 5 bedrooms, four receptions. We've fallen in love, but have nagging doubts. It is part 16th Century, part later. When we had a look round I should have brought a snorkel. There was damp in most of the downstairs rooms, up to 2 feet above floor level, although the plaster was mostly intact. Some rooms had plastic 'wood' cladding on the internal walls, to about 3 ft, which I guess hides a multitude of sins. . About half of the downstairs is floorboards, the other half is tiles, which I presume are laid directly onto an earth floor.
Upstairs, one room has two major damp patches, from a leaky slate roof, and another has a pit prop underneath what may be a plaster collapse (the plaster nearby is quite thick, and sagging) or might be the roof itself falling down. There is no central heating, only electric storage heaters and a few fire places, but not in each room. The electrics are clearly not Victorian, but there are few sockets, and just some modern light fittings screwed into the beams. There is a small cellar, which is as damp as the rest of the downstairs, but not more so. The house is grade II listed.
My question... roughly how much would it take to get this in a state that we could live in? We have two small children, so don't want to live on a building site for any length of time, but I would want to do as much of the work myself as I can. If anyone can give an estimate to the nearest £10,000 it would help me to decide whether to buy or not. We have found a local builder, and will ask him and a surveyor to have a full inspection before we make an offer.
Many, many thanks
Dave

 

[Anonymous]

If only due to the fact that you are on this forum asking questions, it proves you want to appoach this intented project in the correct way.
It appears that what you are proposing to buy, may need substantial repair or maintainance work, and the way to avoid big disappointments an set-backs in the future is to ask as many questions as you possibly can now, and then ask some more.

The first question people in you situation ask is; how much wil it cost, the immediate response you are likely to get is; think of a sum and then double it.
This is of no very much use.
The first thing to do, and as you appear to be doing, is to ask professional advise and site visits from people who understand these old buildings, so they can quantify what needs to be done.

 

[Anonymous]

It's really impossible to answer that sort of question as it depends on your attitude towards living in soemthing that is not perfect. The house sounds rather like mine was twenty years ago. We bought it with next to no spare cash for repairs but put up with what there was, gradually improving things as time and money allowed.
Allow several hundreds of pounds to get the roof patched immediately. Clean the gutters and check drains are not blocked. Open the windows and start living. Plan to remove all the modern non-breathing surfaces. Join SPAB. Keep posting here to tell us how you are caring for an old house. Go slowly and think each step through.
Or you could pay someone else to do the place up in a hurry. People with loads of money sometimes do more damage to old buildings than those on tight budgets.

 

[Anonymous]

You appear to have electics and water, and depending upon on how much in love have you and your young family fallen for it, as Biff suggested you will soon make a nice "cosy" corner to start with.
You may save a lot of money in the long run, end up with a better job and get what you want.

It will mean sacrifying " creature comforts" which we all appear to take for granted these days, which at times do more harm than good.

 

[Anonymous]

Having nearly made it too the end of our first year in our " new" house I'd agree with what has been said above.

We spent 3 years looking for this house, when we saw it we just new it was the one for us. It was over our budget by a fair sum, but that meant we just couldn't afford to do all the work we wanted to do immediately.
Ours wasn't as bad as yours seems to be, as it was dry and livable. The Kitchen was old (50/60's - check out pictures on my first thread here removing gypsom plaster) but clean, the rayburn hardly puts out enough heat to warm the many radiators, but turning off the ones we didn't need helped, and also finding a shed maker who would drop off all his scrap wood for free (saves them paying to dump it) means that burning the fires all day in the winter keeps the house snug and is cheap - oil certainly isn't!!!!!!!!

It took us 7 months to finish all the recommendations of the surveyor, the mortgage company then released the rest of our funds and we are now starting on the inside of the house on the more cosmetic and comfort items.

We have learnt to wear warmer clothes, spend most time in wellies outside, as it is an old farmhouse on a still working farm, well on a small scale, but would we go back to our 3 bed semi, not likely.

I spent ages finding a decent period property surveyor and builders and wood experts etc, could have saved an age if I'd found this site 12 months ago <IMG SRC="http://www.periodproperty.co.uk/discussing/smileys/smile.gif" BORDER=0 ALT=""> and my recommendation would be to ask here for advice on finding such people, don't use ordinary tradesmen.

I learnt so much from having these people round before we bought the house, I relealised the dream of this sort of project was in fact a reality I wanted and could cope with. I don't have any young children though!!!!

I for one am looking forward to reading more about your adventure..........

Graham

 

[Anonymous]

Someone has already said to you: "think of a figure and double it". That might sound flippant, but it's not. As others have already said, it really isn't possible for anyone to give you even the wildest of guesses without looking over the property in detail. And even then, any estimated figure could still be wildly awry.
When it comes to property renovation, it's a general rule of thumb (in my experience) that it will invariably take twice and long and cost twice as much as you think it will - and that's if you're lucky! You can start an apparently small job like replacing a floorboard, and find yourself adding reinforcing work to an entire floor structure. You can ask an electrician to add a couple of new sockets and find yourself rewiring the house. And so on...
I'm painting the blackest of pictures, because the only sensible way to venture into such a project is to anticipate the worst. However you might be lucky - you might only need to do the jobs that your initial inspection has revealed. But you have to be prepared for the worst, in terms of both time and money.
However, if - as others have suggested - you are prepared to rough it for some time, learn as you go along, work hard and do right by the property, you could find it the most satisfying thing you have ever done in your life.
Do let us know what you decide.

 

[Anonymous]

Dave - get RICS surveyor with conservation qualifications - that's really important - there's a link at the top right of the forum page (it sometimes changes places with another link then seems to come back again) - and a builder who is used to working sensitively on listed buildings. Any old builder will not do - and for a roofing quote get a roofer not a jobbing builder.

Anyone who tells you to get an injection damp course, or has no idea about lime pointing and plaster, walk away from.

As it's listed then you would need LBC for some of the work, and obviously have to use the appropriate materials. Too much change may not be allowed, so don't bank on it. Repair not replace, and use like for like materials. Talk to the local authority Conservation Officer, see what he or she says. Look at the listing description too - it will tell you some basics about the place.

Damp can be caused by many things - is the house empty?

It sounds a great place though - if you can 'camp in' it does help, do the roof and the roots and then the rest slowly. Have somewhere you can have a bath and can cook and sleep in some sort of comfort, and don't worry if it isn't what you eventually want. Many people bring up kids while doing this sort of project. It can be hard and disheartening sometimes. but plod on and it will be hugely rewarding. For inspiration have a look at many of the links via the PPUK Homepage to other buildings people have repaired.

A SPAB Homeowners' weekend is always a very useful starting point to get you going, with practical and theoretical sessions, heaps of advice, and people to share experiences with. You don't have to be a SPAB member to attend. Info via the website link at the top of the forum main page.

It's so much better to get something undone and do it the proper way and the way you want it if you feel you can than pay for what someone else has done, or pay for things which have been done badly and you have to undo!



http://www.imagesofengland.org.uk

 

[Anonymous]

Sounds like 100k to 150k, could be less if you skimp, more if you find real disasters.

Not sure that helped much though.

Matt

 

[Anonymous]

You have come to the right place for advice.

Yes, a surveyor or good conservation builder could enlighten you on this one. Talk to the local authority and ask for the conservation officer. Hopefully they should be able to point you to people who could help. They may be able to come out and give you advice on what they consider is appropriate in the way of repairs and use of materials.

As for your builder quiz him about lime, if he says he has used it before but always mixes cement with it do not trust him or let him anywhere near the house.

If he says he knows nothing but is willing to learn book yourself and him onto a lime course with one of the suppliers like TY Mawr Lime or an organisation like SPAB and both learn. Of course he could be experienced in lime already, however not so common for local small builders.

Where in the country are you? If you are not far away come to have a look at my place in Somerset,
approx 6000 square foot over three floors and cellars. Was a total basket case and now the shell is sorted ready for the inside to be first fixed after 2 years of non stop work and £200K plus to this stage. Expected total cost £300k +. This would give you an idea of what is involved and how to deal with certain issues using the correct techniques and materials.

What your describing could be a job where you could spend as little as £20,000 to get on top of the damp coming in above and below and then be able to move on a room at a time at your own pace. Do not rush it.

Give it some serious thought and keep coming back here to ask questions, post photos too it helps us advise more accurately.

Good luck



Merchants House

 

[Anonymous]

Jon,

Just read through your web site - marvellous.

 

[Anonymous]

Many thanks for all your advice and encouragement. It has been a great help, and some of the stories on this site have shown what can be done. A few hours 'surfing' and any ideas of chemical damp courses and plaster from Wickes have gone out the window. (a single glazed sash, solid, though the sills are rotten) The figure of £300,000 made me choke on my tea, until I saw what the Merchants House looked like at first. Maybe 'our' place is not so bad after all.

I've found a fairly local and friendly building conservation company, who use local Lincolnshire limestone for their plaster. We hope to have a joint inspection before the end of the week, and a better estimate of cost. (their link is below: anyone heard of Railton Price?)The local conservation officer is proving harder to contact, but we'll keep trying.

The picture is of the most worrying part; is the prop supporting some flakey plaster, or will the roof collapse when it is moved? The trellis work seems to be later than 16th C, although the curtains may be original. The chicken wire frame in the corner is at the top of a spiral staircase, which we were advised not to use.

Thanks again for your interest. Fingers crossed....
Dave



Railton Price

 

[Anonymous]

 

[Anonymous]

Your picture didn't quite work - you have to put the URL of the actual picture into the Optional image URL slot rather than the Angelfire logo URL

Your're in Lincolnshire then? Get in touch if you want.

 

[Anonymous]

Well - it didn't look so bad until I clicked on the lime sales - to find that they use only HYDRAULIC lime.

Maybe at times - and yes I know the argument that in the past traditionally it may been weakly hydraulic - but I'd take great care as it can have pretty much the same properties as cement.

Ask why they don't use non-hydraulic putty (fat lime).

Also - only rebuild where repair is absolutely impossible - and repair mortar if required, not a blanket re-do, matching new to old as far as possible.

Before you do anything, do read through some of the SPAB and Old House Store technical information - it's useful stuff - and do book up for a SPAB Homeowners' course - worth every penny. Heaps of advice and practical sessions.

And don't be put off by the costs of John's house - it was a basket case. Roof is the most important - get that sorted (it may just need repair) and the rest can be done a little at a time.

 

[Anonymous]

Good Eh? Job of a life time. Funny thing when I was 27 and bought this EH and certain architects even the local authority couldnt help but make comments about quality of specification and my suitabilty. Now they leave me alone, ask my advice sometimes and say lots of nice things.
It was a meant to be situation.
Itching to get going on the inside now but had delays due to the heating system boreholes. I do not want to start fixing finished oak wide boards in the building until we can get some heat in there or we will have lots of moisture taken up and then lots of shrinkage.