new to the forum , questions on tudor cottage restoration.

[robgil]

hello everyone.
i found this forum whilst searching for information on a box framed cottage that i am in the process of buying (hopefully).
i am a plumber however i have no experience with these old buildings apart from working on an old tudor house for a few weeks proir to its restoration, but i was just cleaning it up basically getting it prepped for the contractors.

i believe the cottage is around 4-5 hundred years old , i have concluded this through its construction methods. its wooden box framed , wattle and daub , lime plastered and has a brick skin. the brick is on both gable ends and around the front but the back wall of the cottage is still timber framed in places with the bricks being in between the timbers. it has an inglenook to one side and a small chimney (with no fire place) on the other gable. it is two rooms down stairs and two upstairs (attic conversion) with a thatched roof on top. it is grade 11 listed and in a conservation area.

the cottage is at auction with a fairly low guide price however i am fully prepared to pay what ever it takes to buy it and i think the guide price is simply to gain interest from buyers.


my first question is regarding head height. you enter via the kitchen and there is around 6 foot or less head height however when you step down into the second ground floor room (a 6 inch or so step) there is around 5foot 6 inches head height. someone has poured a concrete floor down and i am told by the conservation people that there may be a brick floor underneath. is this low head height normal? and can i change it by digging down into the floor as i would never be allowed to lift the roof up? i would also like to put a damp proof course down if i can , can anyone recommend what type i would be best to use?

i am also worried about insulating the building. its got exposed beams on the inside and on some of the exterior and i dont want to cover them over with anything. is it more a case of ''you cant insulate the walls''? or is it required through current building regs? i would be quite happy to leave the walls alone and not bother insulating them at all.

anyway , i look forward to sharing this restoration with you guys (providing all goes well at the auction) and hope i can tap into your experiences and knowledge as i progress , the last thing i want to do is turn this lovely old cottage into a new house, i am/will be just its care taker after all.

 

[Hatster]

Hi Robgil

The cottage sounds lovely!

It sounds like you're new to the world of old buildings, so I thought I'd share a few bits of information that I've found really helpful since I bought my house.

1. If it's listed, you need to get permission to make changes from the local Conservation Officer. You don't need permission to do repairs, but you may need to check where a repair becomes a replacement. This may make it more expensive - you (often) won't be able to buy the cheap thing from Screwfix, but a specialist product. See my gutter saga, for example!

2. You need to put plenty of money aside for the inevitable problems that are hiding. One thing leads to another... So it's not just the purchase price that you need to have, but the money to do repairs, and to do them with the materials and to the standard that your conservation officer requires.

3. You're talking about damp proof courses, which suggest to me that you might get a lot out of going on the SPAB's weekend home owners' courses. These are a wonderful introduction to how to look after an old house, and what not to do. For £100 quid or so, it's the best money saver you'll ever go on.

Hope this is helpful from a fellow newby!

Hatster

 

[JoceAndChris]

Welcome to the forum Rob. As another beginner to restoration I must say it's a very useful and interesting place to spend time.

The cottage sounds lovely and will present a wonderful opportunity for the right person. Could you say a bit more about its general condition and your plans for it?

It sounds like you've fallen in love, but bear in mind the tale of my poor 6 ft 2 uncle, 20 years in a low-ceilinged cottage and he now has an inveterate hatred towards them, selling his own off cheap and escaping gratefully to a new build without a backwards glance.

My evenings are punctuated by the cries of my poor husband banging his head in the wine cellar and passageway as well. The door here, 1790 and resting on its original floor, is 4ft 10. If you really think you won't adapt to lots of ducking don't buy your cottage. Even if you gain 2 or 3 inches by removing the concrete floor this may not be a comfortable home for yourself or family.

Apart from that, you will find that the words "damp proof course" are red rags to bulls on this forum. Is the cottage damp? You would need to give loads more information to get a properly considered, and I have to say expertful, and appropriate solution from many of the experienced contributors here.

Do keep us posted, but I'm sure people who know more about this kind of structure than I do will be along shortly.

 

[robgil]

thankyou for the quick replys guys.

the cottages condition is pretty grim , its basically a derelict/unsafe structure. it is complete but it has moved around considerably. you can put your hand through some of the cracks in the walls and one of the gable ends has moved away from the chimney completely, the older chimney over the inglenook is in a very sorry state also , crumbling (hand made) brick and the cement holding it together is nothing more than dust.
it is lovely though.
View attachment 2
View attachment 1



the good thing is that any timbers i have seen look pretty good.
basically i need to get a good idea of whats ahead before i commit to buying it , although i have pretty much decided to anyway providing i dont get any bad surprises before hand.

 

[Gervase]

Looks like a Mexican stand-off at the forthcoming acution - http://www.periodproperty.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=10311 :wink:

 

[robgil]

lol , ive just read the other thread.

 

[Schoolmarm]

Aha, but you managed to get inside!

 

[robgil]

i did , the door was open so i thought id better have a peek before moving any further. i work as a plumber on building sites (new builds mostly) so i have always got my ppe gear in the boot of my car.

from what i can gather the cottage moving around is possibly due to its lack of foundations and partly if not mostly due to a very large willow tree standing around 10 - 15 feet away from it. its in a conservation area so work on the tree will need permission from what i can gather. the tree is far from dying but i wouldnt want it removed anyway. i am having an arborist friend of mine look at it later this week so hopefully it wont have to be cut down.

 

[Gareth Hughes]

i would also like to put a damp proof course down if i can , can anyone recommend what type i would be best to use?

Yes. None.

Definitely none. None, none, nonity none.

It is a cottage that has already been discussed here which seems to be of brick-skinned clunch construction. Do not upset its breathability, talk to your local conservation officer, and do not expect to have a beautifully "renovated" "luxury" "former glory" "good as new" dream home at the end of the process.

If you win it at auction, of course. There's (at least :wink: )one rival bidder who posts here

 

[robgil]

i would also like to put a damp proof course down if i can , can anyone recommend what type i would be best to use?

Yes. None.

Definitely none. None, none, nonity none.

It is a cottage that has already been discussed here which seems to be of brick-skinned clunch construction. Do not upset its breathability, talk to your local conservation officer, and do not expect to have a beautifully "renovated" "luxury" "former glory" "good as new" dream home at the end of the process.

If you win it at auction, of course. There's (at least :wink: )one rival bidder who posts here

pretty much what i thought , there are no signs of damp even though it stands close to a river but i thought id ask all the same.
i am fully aware though that this will not be a modern house , very far from it in fact. it will be my only house though so it will have to be comfortable , perhaps not suited to modern day living as such but still doable.
at present we (my partner and i) live in pretty much the same set up (rented) with the exception of a thatched roof and although small i wouldnt swap it for a modern house for the world.

would this restoration have to adhere to modern day building regs? this is what frightens me because modern day building regs might not be suitable for an old building like this.


edit = this is where i live at the moment , just for some cottage porn. View attachment 1

no where near as old but still lovely just the same.

 

[Gareth Hughes]

There is real potential for some nasty conflicts over building regs - and some awful end results - and a lot will depend on the attitude of the individual building inspector and his place in the pecking order compared to the CO. Not something I know for that district.

 

[robgil]

if everything is replaced or repaired 'as is' then i should be ok , yes? apart from installing new plumbing ,drainage, electrics etc. the structural fabric of the building wont be effected?

 

[Hatster]

No, is it really the same cottage? That's very amusing! May the best man win - and if it's neither of you, let the eventual winner know that we're waiting with baited breath on PPUK.

 

[Penners]

a lot will depend on the attitude of the individual building inspector and his place in the pecking order compared to the CO.

That's a bit of an eye-opener. Are you saying that this varies from district to district? If so, then presumably we can infer that there are places where the BI can overrule the CO on the Listed Building issues?

I don't like the sound of that.

 

[Schoolmarm]

Welcome fellow land rover owner. It isn't good is it, about the BI.

 

[Jon Maine]

Welcome, this is the place for mad eccentrics, good luck in the fray and don't expect to move into the new one for a while if you buy it. It does look lovely though.

 

[robgil]

thank you for the welcome guys and gals.
interesting about the BI being able to overthrow decisions made by the CO.
i enquired about extending the cottage to the CO and was told under no circumstances would i be allowed to extend even the latter additions to the cottage, not even a conservatory.
which is fair enough but perhaps the BI might have other views? probably not eh?

i was told i may be able to build a garage however when i looked into planning permission i found out that because the building is listed and because it is a conservation area any outbuildings can only have a 10 meter squared foot print , which might be tight even for a garage.
can anybody comment on this? i got the info from a firm who specialise in erecting oak framed out buildings.

 

[Flyfisher]

Welcome to the forum robgil.

But can I just add my voice to Penners' concern about the BI vs CO point that Gareth mentioned. I don't like the sound of it either. I've been working on the assumption that the CO is the main authority for a listed property and that if s/he doesn't see a need to get BI involved then it isn't necessary. This has been working very well as far as I'm concerned (and my CO) so should I be worried about BI suddenly turning up and asking all sorts of awkward questions about my new single-glazed windows etc?

Clarification Gareth?

 

[Schoolmarm]

The BI can't overturn planning decisions. He can only argue how things should be done.

So he won't be able to say yes to a bigger garage or an extension.

But he can certainly get involved with other things and lots of people on here have recounted tales.



(I think) :lol:

 

[robgil]

would it not be a safe bet then to have the BI come out and inspect a project periodically throughout the work as it is being undertaken?