New roof proposal - advice needed!

[sharr84]

Hello All,

Hoping for some advice / reassurance! I own a three story terrace / town house and I've had a leak causing a drip to come in on a 1st floor bedroom. The situation looks it may have been going on for a while as one of the beams is quite wet so very keen to get it fixed asap.

I contacted a roofer and initially a quote was given for installing lead soakers and step flashing in a valley area of the roof, to replace some failing concrete and I was happy with this approach as a sensible improvement. However on closer inspection the roofer now says the roof is in poor shape and is recommending a full re-roof of the front of the house including re-baton, felting and advising new tiles. The tiles suggested appear to be a double width slate type (apologies I had issues uploading a pic but a link to tile is here https://prnt.sc/wYunXMm94t4B) and I think are comparitively heavier. I wanted to check with members if this is a sensible approach to improve and upgrade the roof and if members have / would used similiar tiles on their properties as replacements for the original slates? Any issues with having felt fitted where once there had been none?

Also the roofer has suggested to do the whole roof but I don't have the funds for this (!) so agreed we could do the front section (where the leak is) and potentially do the rear section in a few months time. Again hoping no gotcha's with this plan as I really need to fix the leak in question but getting half the roof done also maybe might draw a few comments

All replies gratefully received!

 

[Cubist]

You would be wise to get at least two other roofers to look at the work needed.

This one chap may be ripping you off. Did he give you a detailed explanation of why he felt the roof had major problems and provide you with photographic evidence of his findings?

 

[Lacan07]

What were his reasons? Are there many loose slate tiles, is there any issue with the felt?

I share an oast house with my neighbour, the slate roof looked a bit shoddy when I purchased the house, i had a few tiles slip and i was convinced there must be leaks. As my neighbour, a builder, had a few issues his side he decided to reroof it. When we dismantled it (just after a period of sustained rain) we were shocked to find all the timber was drier than a buzzards crutch.

 

[sharr84]

Thanks for the fast reply Cubist, I'm onto another roofer now and will try a further one. I've found it very difficult in the past to get hold of reliable ones that keep appointment times, I don't know why this trade seems so elusive to find a good one!

The roofer didn't give huge detail but said some batons were rotten and felt the tiles were not in great condition, he showed me one tile which to be honest I didn't think looked too bad! He mentioned some water staining on the back but otherwise it looked in good shape. No pictures were provided to support the case. The scaffolding was already up in antipication of the first agreed and quoted job so I'm wary it's leaving me in an awkward position now and don't want to feel trapped into something.

 

[sharr84]

What were his reasons? Are there many loose slate tiles, is there any issue with the felt?

I share an oast house with my neighbour, the slate roof looked a bit shoddy when I purchased the house, i had a few tiles slip and i was convinced there must be leaks. As my neighbour, a builder, had a few issues his side he decided to reroof it. When we dismantled it (just after a period of sustained rain) we were shocked to find all the timber was drier than a buzzards crutch.

Hi Lacan07, thanks for taking the time to post. No I don't think there were loose tiles but as I understand no felt. The house was built in 1898 would no felt be a common situation? On the one side I felt a layer of felt, and the flashing / soakers would be a good upgrade but also I feel it was thrust upon me quite suddenly and I don't want to feel pressured into something that ultimately may not be required.

I thought I had helped matters a bit because I had removed part of the plaster from the ceiling and could 100% see where the drip was coming in but the roofer said the leak could be anywhere on the roof and better to do the whole front so it could be guaranteed to fix the issue. Looking at other houses around my tiles appear no worse to be honest and it's such a disruptive job. Any thoughts on the tile choice they suggested?

 

[Lacan07]

Hi Lacan07, thanks for taking the time to post. No I don't think there were loose tiles but as I understand no felt. The house was built in 1898 would no felt be a common situation? On the one side I felt a layer of felt, and the flashing / soakers would be a good upgrade but also I feel it was thrust upon me quite suddenly and I don't want to feel pressured into something that ultimately may not be required.

I thought I had helped matters a bit because I had removed part of the plaster from the ceiling and could 100% see where the drip was coming in but the roofer said the leak could be anywhere on the roof and better to do the whole front so it could be guaranteed to fix the issue. Looking at other houses around my tiles appear no worse to be honest and it's such a disruptive job. Any thoughts on the tile choice they suggested?

Well, my oast house roof didn't have any felt either, but having these upgrades is always good so a new roof wouldn't be the worst thing. As Cubist has said already though get a few more quotes if you can. Roofers aren't my favourite traders.

He has a point about the difficulty of tracing a leak, sometimes it can be difficult and not many roofers are willing to try, which come to think of it is probably a good place to start when finding a roofer. Have you got access to your loft space, are you able to get up there on a rainy day?

 

[sharr84]

Yes an upgrade with the felt added would be extra peace of mind. I just wasn't sure on the suitability of the new tiles and of course the much higher bill at the end of it Luckily I did speak to another roofer this evening who sounded a decent chap on first impressions and is going to take a look tomorrow. It will be interesting to see what he says.

The leak itself is a unusual place. It's a first floor bedroom with an additional room above it and the bedroom has small roof voids to the left and right sides (unfortunately I'm getting an error trying to insert pics - but here's a link https://prnt.sc/aGYYRJyzHaA-) The drip seems to be coming in right at the bottom corner where the tiles and bricks meet. I guess the leak could be higher up though and running down from an unknown higher point but nothing internally seems visible? Its frustrating as I can see the leak as it's coming in - it's hard to actually rech from inside but I was able to somewhat cover the the wood that had been getting wet to try and stop it getting worse. Actually I'll probably start a seperate thread on the beam that's gotten wet as a result of the leak!

 

[Cubist]

The use of felt in roofs was first introduced in the UK in around 1930 but was not extensively employed by the building industry until the 1950s. Given the construction date of your home it has stood for over 100 years with nothing other than the tiles and the lead flashing around the chimney and the dormer successfully protecting it from penetrating rainwater. Stripping undamaged tiles off the roof to then fit felt and new battens before fitting new tiles strikes me as overkill and throughly wasteful, if not criminal, action designed to loot your bank account.

The photo you supplied is very small and therefore the detail is not clear but given your report of where you are seeing water enter the first floor bedroom I would be inclined to look for the following root causes before anything else: -

1. A damaged or slipped tile somewhere near the dormer - given theres no felt then rainwater would not be able to track very far from such a source.
2. Damaged or slipped lead flashing around the foot of the dormer brickwork where it meets the main roof - small holes can form in the lead as a result of drips from the dormer roof and/or the lead can slip from the brickwork to allow water in behind it.
3. High wind damage or repeated movement to the leading edge of the lead flashing over the main roofs tiles can cause the lead to tear or rip.
4. Driven rain being forced under the edge of the flashing to later appear in rooms below.

Frankly put, I think the first guy you spoke with was/is trying to rip you off. Get a couple of others to come along but make sure to ask for written references before engaging anyone AND definitely do not tell them what the other guy said or how much he wanted to charge you. In my opinion the true cost may be as little as £200 and even less.

 

[sharr84]

Thanks Cubist, I agree it seemed overkill and when I thought about it losing all the slate was madness. Sorry for the pictures (I keep getting errors off the site when I try to upload but could be my browser having issues). Today was interesting as another roofer did have a look and said he thought the tiles were fine and the original work they quoted for (new flashing, lead soakers) would be his advice. Interestingly as you said in point the 2nd roofer also mentioned - that without any membrane the leak has to be close to where it's dripping. So excellent analysis from you too!

On my property in that valley section I have no flashing but it's an original mortar type substance sealing between the tile and brick and defintely appears to have seen better days so I'd be happy to take the chance to improve that with some properly chased flashing and all being well put the problem behind me.

I did a bit more research on the recommendation of tile he gave me too - apparantly cement tiles can weigh 2 or 3 times that of slate and would have likely put a lot of stress on my roof and likely raisd reg flags if I ever came to sell. Searches also seemed to say that changing a large area of roof from slate to another material would need building regs approval - I put a call into the council just to check that point but feeling very relieved I didn't take the plunge on their 'new roof proposal'! Thanks again for the excellent follow up. I'm a new poster but a couple more new threads ready to post!

 

[Cubist]

Your new guy sounds like a keeper. Happy to have helped someone dodge a £20K+ bullet.
As to other posts - bring em on, there are many others here able and happy to help.

 

[Lacan07]

The use of felt in roofs was first introduced in the UK in around 1930 but was not extensively employed by the building industry until the 1950s. Given the construction date of your home it has stood for over 100 years with nothing other than the tiles and the lead flashing around the chimney and the dormer successfully protecting it from penetrating rainwater. Stripping undamaged tiles off the roof to then fit felt and new battens before fitting new tiles strikes me as overkill and throughly wasteful, if not criminal, action designed to loot your bank account.

The photo you supplied is very small and therefore the detail is not clear but given your report of where you are seeing water enter the first floor bedroom I would be inclined to look for the following root causes before anything else: -

1. A damaged or slipped tile somewhere near the dormer - given theres no felt then rainwater would not be able to track very far from such a source.
2. Damaged or slipped lead flashing around the foot of the dormer brickwork where it meets the main roof - small holes can form in the lead as a result of drips from the dormer roof and/or the lead can slip from the brickwork to allow water in behind it.
3. High wind damage or repeated movement to the leading edge of the lead flashing over the main roofs tiles can cause the lead to tear or rip.
4. Driven rain being forced under the edge of the flashing to later appear in rooms below.

Frankly put, I think the first guy you spoke with was/is trying to rip you off. Get a couple of others to come along but make sure to ask for written references before engaging anyone AND definitely do not tell them what the other guy said or how much he wanted to charge you. In my opinion the true cost may be as little as £200 and even less.

excellent point cubist