New project - lots of advice needed

[EmmaT]

Hi all,
We've just bought a house built around 1852-55 that needs quite a bit of work done and we'd like to do it properly and try and restore some of the character - first old house, so real beginners at this!

That said, it's a pretty standard 2up 2down, bathroom on the back of the kitchen, mid-terrace cottage, thousands like it, so we're not too worried about using period methods to achieve period finish (if you see what I mean)

1. Floorboards - previous owners had carpet with hardboard underneath. Taken this up and the floorboards are in pretty bad state. Some are woodwormed to death (nearly put foot through one), some have been replaced with random planks, and some replace with hardboard ( :shock: ). How do we go about replacing the floorboards? How much is this likely to cost for small rooms (presuming at the moment that we don't have to replace joists)

2. Woodworm - plenty of evidence of this in floorboards and, more worryingly, lintels. Should we get it treated just in case - can't tell if it's still alive at this stage. We're living in the house now (can't afford to do anything but), so if we have treatment done, do we just have to remove everything and spend the day in the garden with all our worldly goods?

3. Restoring fireplace/grate - what looks like it could be a very nice small grate/fireplace, covered in about 200 layers of elderly white paint. Where do I start!

4. Old lathe/plaster ceiling - has been artexed over (why do people do these things?!), but suspect that it will only take a small prod to bring the whole thing down. How best to do this safely, and how to replace/repair?

Think those are the main things for now - most of the work will have to wait until we've had the roof properly supported (leaving that to the professionals) and have some floorboards that are safe to tread on! Think I'm going to be asking a lot of daft questions over the next few months...

 

[biffvernon]

thousands like it, so we're not too worried about using period methods to achieve period finish

So many have been 'modernised' that before you realize it there might not be so many left. It is often the case that using 'period methods' is actually the easiest, cheapest and most convincing way to achieve a 'period finish'. It can also be very interesting, rewarding and fun.

Don't rush, take your time, it's not going to go away.

The woodworm is usually not nearly as bad as people suspect. It may be historic, from the time when the house was damp ond unloved. Don't rush into drenching your house in poisons that will probably do more damage to your health than to the woodworm's. This is just the time of year to see if there are actually any woodworm alive as the adults emerge, leaving tiny piles of 'frass', pale coloured powder like very fine sawdust, near the holes. If you can't find any frass there probably aren't any live worm. (If you can see frass that shows the worm has turned into an adult and flown off so you still havn't got any)

 

[Carol]

Congratulations on your 'new' house! Most useful advice we were given early on was to relax and enjoy it while you do it up slowly!

As for floorboards, are you planning to go for bare boards and rugs or repair and fit carpet? 'Bare board look' means a visit to local reclamation yard for similar size boards, price varies with location and wood. If you are covering all up, go to local wood yard for new.
Woodworm needs to be active to need treatment. Lots of ways to detect this on this site! We lived in our previous house when it was treated, but check with company because they use different stuff if place is vacant.
I would start with the fireplace as it is something you can get your teeth into! Strip a tiny bit first, Nitromors or Kling strip, your choice! Then if it looks fine carry on. We then black leaded the cast iron bit and waxed the wood surround. When chaos reigned and I worried that the house would collapse around our penniless corpses, I used to look at my lovely fireplace for a bit of comfort!
With the ceiling, try not to slam doors hard and talk to builder OR go at it with a hammer. You will probably be encouraged to lime plaster, but you could just put up plasterboard and then get a plasterer...
But probably you should do your roof first and check gutters! Enjoy!

 

[thiambal]

Hi and welcome,

I echo getting your roof done first!

Not an expert on woodworm - but if you do have to get joists sprayed it can be done for £2-300 and probably best done before you replace floor boards - you do not want to take up new board to spray.

Ceilings - if they are horrible to look at they will bug you especially in the bed room - however, if the lathe and plaster is going to give it is a very messy job - but easier to do before laying new boards up stairs!

I would echo taking it easy - ensure that you do not lose the rest of your life on doing the house - out last property which sounds similar to your had old lath and plaster celings which the survey said were on the point of colapse - 7 years later they are still there!

Also - do do the fire place first - a bugger of a job - but looks great when finsihed and you will be able to sit down each evening and feel great about how wonderful the rest of the house will look.

P.S. If you floorboards really have been patched with hardboard (only a few mm thick and shiney on one side) and not chipboard (thicker andlooks like lots of wood chips stuck together) then you probably need to put something in these gaps quickly - before your foot goes through them!

 

[EmmaT]

Thanks guys, that's a good starting point.
I think you're right - I need a couple of projects to do while the serious stuff is being done by the professionals, and I have a tin of Nitromors left over from a previous task, so I'll get going on my fireplace!
We've asked the local preservation company to come and give us a second opinion on the woodworm, and whether we need to replace the joists - we do want to go for bare floorboards in at least one room, so it sounds like a trip to the reclamation yard is a good starting point.

P.S. If you floorboards really have been patched with hardboard (only a few mm thick and shiney on one side) and not chipboard (thicker andlooks like lots of wood chips stuck together) then you probably need to put something in these gaps quickly - before your foot goes through them!

I probably do mean chipboard - I'm slowly learning the terminology!! None the less, it's indicative of the level of care taken by previous owners and I'm probably more concerned about putting my foot through the ones where I can peel big chunks of 'wood' off the side with my fingers thanks to our wormy friends!

 

[Peter]

If you do end up taking the ceiling down do it from upstairs and knock it downwards rather than pulling it all down around you.

 

[biffvernon]

We've asked the local preservation company to come and give us a second opinion on the woodworm, and whether we need to replace the joists

If you ask someone for an opinion and that person has a vested interest in the opinion given (like a contract to sell woodworm poison) then the opinion is likely to be biased.

 

[NT]

Congrats on the house!

One thing I will say, all these repairs are pretty low tech and arent difficult once you know what to do. People sometimes bring the pros in because they dont realise it wont take long to read up and know what to do. Unlike the others I'd suggest at least considering cancelling all pros and finding out how to do the roof yourself. If youre practically minded its not rocket science, and can save you a good bundle of money that can make a real difference elsewhere on the project.

Woodworm: almost every Victorian house has worm holes, usually from Victorian worms. The real question is how strong is the wood thats left. If its so severely eaten that its really shot then it'll need replacing, in general. But usually wood is sufficient even when its mediumly well holed.

Wood Lintels: People tend to think of these as structural elements, but short lintels (eg 2-3 feet) arent normally needed to hold walls up, and are perhaps more accurately viewed as backup devices. There are lots of old houses with either no lintels, rotten lintels or broken lintels, and theyre not going anywhere. Lintels dont support all the wall above them, they only support a triangle of brickwork, and that brickwork is is almost every case self supporting already. Experience does not seems to indicate any significant danger from loss of short lintels with brickwork. Note this does not apply to longer lintels. Longer lintels can not be compromised safely. Also this does not apply to random stone walls, which dont interlock and self-support the same way bricks do.

Floorboards: if your boards are shot then so quite likely are the joists supporting them. I'd lift a few and look see. Replacing boards is very simple: get the right width and thickness of wood, cut to the required length, put in place and bang a few nails through into underlying joists to keep it there. Board ends should be over joists rather than in mid air.

Reusing old wood as boards will give a well worn look, and colour at least in the right area if not a full match. New wood is nearly white, has square edges, and flat smooth surface, so looks totally out of place. If used it can be dyed to look much closer.

Replacing ground floor joists is not much harder, but of yourse youve got no floor in the room while doing it, which is inconvenient.

For ground floor suspended timber floors, always check the exterior air vents are clear. Wood floors need fresh air to avoid rot. Also chipboard tends to come apart the way you describe if damp.

If you replace the boards and/or joists, I'd seriously make this an opportunity to insulate the floor. There are other threads on this.

FWIW its also an opportunity to run some cat5e under the new floors to each room, which can be used for a myriad of future uses, not just computers.

I'd forget about asking a woodworm chemical salesman whether you need to buy woodworm chemicals! The answer is predictable. Such treatments are not usually needed.

Chipboard floors are usually 3/4", less often 1/2". Hardboard is normally 3mm.

Artex can be removed by steaming, lime is not removed this way. If you end up deciding to remove the L&P as well, be aware that removing these ceilings is a hellishly filthy job, and that nothing in the room will survive it. I know this from experience. Also falling lime chunks can cause head injury. Propping and regluing lime ceilings is not too hard and an effective way to fix a ceiling at risk of falling.

If rewiring is in your future, reflooring is a good time to put cable down for the sockets, it'll avoid a lot of extra work in future. It can be put down and have the ends coming up for socket points, doesnt need to be wired in or plaster channelled until later.


NT

 

[BMcD]

If you decide to knock your ceiling down form above be very careful if you're in the loft as it could quickly fill with dust reducing visablity to vertualy zero with the risk of loosing your footing on the joists. I find the easiest way to take down a ceiling is to cover the floor with polythene then hardboard on top of that and taped with gaffer tape at the joins and around the edge, next tape up the door (closed) wear a disposable paper suit and respirator face mask and have a couple of bottles of water handy (for drinking) plus lots of rubble sacks and shovel and broom (basically everthing you need to do the job as coming out to fetch stuff lets all the dust out with you). Now from a working platform or sturdy ladder with the aid of a hammer and bolster/stiff scraper remove only the plaster leaving the lath in place. Once all the plaster is off and swept up into sacks you can take down the lath and tie them into managable bundles (great to use as kindling in open fires). Be carefull of nails as they are very sharp and make sure you remove them all from the joists or hammer those you are unable to remove below the surface before fitting any plasterboards. After you sweep up and take up the hardboard and polythene you should have a fairly clean floor and if you start with the biggest room you can easily reuse the hardboard for the next one. But it must be said that no matter how hard you try the dust will find a way into everything. It is literally indescribably messy. If you can avoid it do, perhaps overboarding the ceiling may be an option

 

[NT]

If Evelyn were here she'd moan about talk of plasterboard, it does give a different end result, but in my mind it depends if youre dealing with a terraced house or a listed building as to how significant this is.

If the OP wants to do or learn plastering, a damaged ceiling gives a risk free oportunity to practice, as the worst case end result is just overboard it.


NT

 

[EmmaT]

Thanks guys - always useful to have more opinions.

Our main issue with the woodworm is unfortunately resale - much as I'd love to stay in the house for the long term, it's only going to be big enough for another few years (plus potential relocation abroad), and we're aware that a couple of buyers dropped out before we bought on the basis of the survey results - so some of the things we're doing are just to get the 'certificate' for the next buyers (much as I hate to have to do this). I work in marketing, so I'm well aware that I'm going to get the hard sell from the woodworm treatment salesmen!

Really useful advice on the ceiling - we'll try to remove the artex with a steamer without damaging further the construction of the ceiling - we've got to replace the floorboards above one way or another as yesterday I put my foot most of the way through one of them (and I'm only a 9st weakling!) - they look pretty original, as obviously have been stained around the outside of a square carpet, which I know is Victorian style. I've found a good local supplier of reclaimed pine boards, which look good though expensive. Will also try and insulate floor at the same time, which should also help noise transfer.

I'm going to rely on the professionals for the roof - I'm game for most DIY projects, but don't think I've got the experience (or nerve!) to try my hand with that one. According to a trusted roofer, all the weight is on a single downward support, which is in turn on a single joist, so the roof is sagging,as isthe ceiling below. We're getting a 'light touch' solution to spread the weight more evenly.

Have spent the weekend practising our skills on making the shed safe and watertight so have somewhere to put all our worldly goods while we're doing all this work!