New old house - trying to work out what's what

[Cloudscape]

I recently bought an old Grade II place - stone walls, slate roof, quite a bit of exposed timber inside. (Just a sample, before we bought the place)

Whoever had the house... before the people before us... seemed to be going along the right lines. There are lime-plastered internal walls, and (I think) limewash. Some of the lime plaster is signed by the plasterer, back in the 1980s.

If any of the older internal doors aren't actually old, they look it. The choice of door furniture is very 'authentic', in iron, with rosehead nails. All this looks great and makes you feel that at least some people understood what they were doing.

Unfortunately, the owners before me, used gypsum plaster extensively, plasterboard, and (now I've found where they dumped all their unused paint and empty paint tins!) lots of vinyl emulsion. There are even a couple of unopened tins of F+B paint - which indicates the spirit was willing... but this paint was never used.

They have part dry-lined and/or plastered two rooms, covering what was alledgedly very nice exposed stonework (by plastering directly onto it). Luckily they moved, they only got as far as 'modernizing' two rooms.

The living room is plastered almost completely with gypsum plaster. There are two areas of damp on an external wall (seems to relate to the heat generated by a wood-burning stove). Should I take all the gypsum plaster off and start again?

How easy/hard is it to get gypsum plaster off stone walls?

Where walls have been emulsioned, is it possible to sand the paint off? Does this damage the lime plaster?

Externally, round the back where the walls have never been limewashed, the previous owner proudly indicated quite a lot of repointing... all in cement mortar. It's everywhere, locally. :?

Should I leave the pointing as it is? It's neat, if nothing else. Or should it be removed? It's all one one two-storey gable end at the rear.

Never having owned a listed building (and having read of other people's experiences with COs), I feel I should tell the planning dept before I even refurb the roof and chimneys, let alone change anything. I'm even wondering if I should get permission to lop some trees in my back garden. :?

If listing is about the 'character' of a house, are you allowed to choose whatever style bathrooms and kitchen you want - given that these rooms do have 'character'? This is may be a daft question, but the kitchen is very visible from a very 'period' dining room. If I make the kitchen very modern, doesn't this effect the character of the house?

There is a mix in the house of lath/plaster infill to timber framing, plasterboard infill and... no infill at all. Our surveyor said that some of the open framework should be filled. If this is for strength, should it be lath and plaster? Is plasterboard infilling OK?

Some of this infill is very raised - either as smooth cushions of lime plaster, or very rough ones! It seems to stick out more than would have been necessary to cover the laths (nailed between the timbers, on the surface). Does anyone know if this raised infilling is functional or just because it looks interesting? Could you inset laths onto battens and have cushions that were only slightly raised (or not raised at all)?

Oh... and roughcast render. It's been on the front of the house since at least the 1880s (seen in old photos). It's been patched and doesn't look too bad. But one area (maybe 0.25 sqm) is missing. What was roughcast render made of (Wales/Shropshire, probably mid 1800s)? Does anyone still do it, and can it be patched?

I have plenty to keep me going while I ponder this lot, but I'd be grateful for some info and ideas. I'm busy scraping sheep droppings off external floors (don't ask) and trying to turn back time ten years to when the housework stopped. :? I'm also scraping food and dark grease off walls, floors, radiators and even ceilings... and there's all the furniture and rubbish that was left behind. That'll keep me busy for some time.

 

[Nemesis]

Did any of this have LBC? (No don't anser that!).

I wouldn't worry about kitchen and bathroom design - but if you are doing work to roof and chimney consult the CO!

Excuse brevity and I'm sure others will post tomorrow.

Trees - is it a conservation area?

 

[Cloudscape]

I'm pretty certain there's never been an LBC for anything. However, the listing is fairly recent. If that helps. :?

From what I can gather locally, most people emphasize that their houses are listed, but carry on changing them. :roll:

Trees - it is a conservation area, but the trees are in my back garden, if that makes a difference. However, they are visible from the road. I think I already know that I am going to need permission...

 

[Nemesis]

Trees

Trees make an important contribution to the character of the local environment. Anyone proposing to cut down, top or lop a tree in a conservation area, whether or not it is covered by a tree preservation order, has to give notice to the local authority. The authority can then consider the contribution the tree makes to the character of the area and if necessary make a tree preservation order to protect it.

From:

http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/server/show/nav.00100200800g008


Newly listed - if the changes happened before listing then OK, but if after and if newly listed then it's more probable that there is some sort of record. Interesting that it's newly listed - another that got away initially? There must be many others!

Yes I know - people like being able to say they live in a listed building, without any idea of what that means. As long as they can do what they like with it that's OK.

Before doing anything it's worth talking to the CO. As it sounds like you want to undo the unsympathetic stuff then I can't see a problem. You are allowed to repair on a like for like basis without LBC, but that doesn't give unlimited rights, and it's still always worth running things past the CO.

The cement is a very difficult one - yes it would be best to remove, but if it's well stuck then you could do a great deal of damage. I have a similar situation - and it's very cement rich indeed and stuck very fast. Time should loosen it, but it will also damage some of the stone too.

The gypsum - usually not so hard, but difficult to predict, and some folk like to use sand and cement under. Proceed with caution but it's certainly worth proceeding, even if it's to replace with lime. Exposed stone is probably not original to the building but a modern fad.

As far as roughcast - it will be lime, and Gervase is the person to ask about it!

As for the infill - it's hard to say without knowing more but it's probable that there have been several extra layers plastered on over the years which is the cause of the raised areas. As far as strength goes - it sounds unlikely to me, but I'm not a surveyor. However simply being a surveyor does not guarantee expertise with historic structures.

Best thing to do is formulate your ideas and then see if the CO will have an informal chat. Get on the right side of the CO and show willing!

As far as bathroom and kitchen fittings are concerned, choice of style etc won't be an issue - what will be an issue is if you want to start knocking holes in anything of significance ( putting cupboards up over historic wall paintings tends not to be favourably viewed) or dividing up rooms. The latter would require a great deal of consideration.

Gave up on housework ten years ago - sounds like my house then.

If you get the cleaning bug do come and visit... no sheep droppings indoors.

 

[Cloudscape]

I think I need to get my bearings with this house. Tomorrow (25 Aug), we'll have owned it for a month.

There's a lot to get our heads round. The trees bother me, because it's something I know a little about. There's a weeping willow maybe 8m from the house, and between the house and the tree are the main drains and a soakaway. I know that's not a good combination. There's a history of root problems with the drain and the soakaway.

But I will take the route of least risk - contacting the local authority. There aren't many tall trees locally, and ours are pretty central to the village. Thanks for the info, Nemesis.

I'm aware of the do-it-up trends. We looked for a year at houses in France, where (in a lot of cases) anything goes. Or - in some cases - everything goes! :lol:

I'd remove every scrap of recent gypsum plaster (from the living room walls at least) just to be rid of it, and replace it. I wouldn't be looking to have bare stone walls. I know there's a tendency too for people to uncover everything down to 'original'. Our house has had 400 years (+) of changes and additions, so 'original' is a moot point.

I think some people do a fabulous job of producing a mix of ancient and modern (smooth white walls, lovingly sanded wood and pin spotlights - but that wouldn't work in this house. It's ancient crappiness is a major part of why it's great. It's past its best, just like me.

The cement and the rest of the gypsum plaster - I'll monitor that and come back to it when these things push their way up to the top of the priority list.

 

[Nemesis]

Sounds like you have it about sorted. If you do have to remove paint by the way - try Strippers of Sudbury as sanding anything vinyl is pretty thankless. I totally agree about the whole tart it up to within an inch of its life syndrome, and I just tell all that this is shabby chic! (Try The Well Worn Interior by Tim Whittaker - Amazon has it.)

Best though to live there a while and just get it clean before making any major decisions.

The willow does sound a problem - they have very invasive roots, and there's always the slap a TPO on it syndrome to be avoided. You can be prosecuted however if you do anything without approval, and frankly I think there is more protection of trees in conservation areas than buildings.

I love trees as much as anyone, and we have quite a number, but at times something has to give.

 

[Cloudscape]

I love trees as much as anyone, and we have quite a number, but at times something has to give.

My attitude exactly. The willow is about 1.5 metres from a neighbour's outbuilding. I have no idea what they use the building for though. And it's probably only 6-7m from the backs of two houses. I wonder... if the local authority want the tree, maybe they'd offer to pick up the bills for the damage it's going to cause. :roll:

 

[Nemesis]

I think if you have a report from a tree surgeon to say it is causing damage things will be considered more favourably.

It's just if you get a jobsworth at the local authority...

Also, if you have room to plant another tree (not a willow!) further away that would help, I think, to mitigate the loss.

It's sad but people do plant trees in daft places!

 

[MdB]

I had a twisted willow about 4m away from the front of the house close to the main drain down the road. I hacked at it every other year but it seemed to grow back very very quickly. I seriously thought about getting rid of it but it did look nice though I knew it was probably doing something horrible underground. Fortunately, it is now somebody else's problem as it didn't cause an issue when we came to sell which surprised me. I thought it would be raised in the survey.

We had more problems with the leylandii hedge (6m tall) we removed from the back garden (with agreement from all neighbours) as the deeds stated that we were not allowed to plant or remove any trees. Didn't spot this requirement when I bought which taught me to read everything very carefully the next time.

 

[Nemesis]

That's a bit potty - in perpetuity, no trees can ever be planted or removed?

Who would enforce this?

 

[MdB]

That's a bit potty

Totally.

The requirement was put on the deeds by the council when they sold the land to the developer (it was an 1980's estate). The developer included it when the land was split up for each individual property.

The problem was there was no plans to tell anyone where the original trees were. When the buyers solicitor queried it, I wrote back stating what trees were in the garden, what I had planted, what had been cut down and what had died. The older trees, including the willow, were all very approx 30 years old so it was impossible to tell if they were there when the deeds were written so it was impossible to tell if they should technically be cut down or not.
Fortunately, the buyers solicitor didn't take it any further so I assume they guessed it was so stupid, it would never get enforced.

 

[Nemesis]

If this is a covenant it could possibly be lifted as being unreasonable.

 

[Ushy M]

We have a listed house in a conservation area and were very worried about a couple of trees close to the house. The approach we took was to go to the Tree Conservation Officer and just ask his expert advice rather than going in with a direct request to fell the trees. I know these things are very variable from one area to another, but he was very helpful and prepared actually to go further than we'd planned ourselves.

On the subject of whether walls should be exposed stone or not - we have some exposed, some lime rendered and some (grrrrr) gypsum plastered. the house dates back to about about 1670 - what would the finish have likely been then?

 

[Cloudscape]

I've tiptoed about asking the nearest locals what they think of the willow tree. It's a fairly prominent feature and it seems people love it - including the people whose views of a lovely landscape are blocked by the tree, strangely enough.

I think you're right - rather than tell people what you want... ask people what their opinion is, and what they want.

To be honest, the tree does look great. I was sitting in the shade from it a couple of days ago, listening only to the breeze making the leaves rustle.

Maybe the fact that trees take a lot of moisture from the surrounding earth is a (possibly beneficial) factor to consider?

Talking of wall covering - locally to me, most walls seem to have been completely lime plastered originally, with a few in exposed stone. Some of the walls had plaster infill between timber framing, and some have been taken that way over the years (you can see where all the surface laths were nailed on, for when the wall was completely covered in plaster).

I've since discovered that everything was being done with lime in my house until the previous owners. They repointed extensively with cement, used Dulux weathershield instead of limewash on the exterior walls, used a lot more gypsum plaster than I realized, some cement render, and gallons of vinyl emulsion. Sometime last century, some of the exposed wood had been painted with shellac. The previous owners used acrylic varnish. I feel quite grrrrrrr towards what they've done. :?

 

[Penners]

I feel quite grrrrrrr towards what they've done.

That's understandable. However, it's an unfortunate fact that - just as we don't have to prove our parenting skills before we have children - neither do we have to prove our period property caring credentials before we buy one.

Ho hum.