New house, new problems...

[Moo]

Well, we've found the house, agreed the (eye-watering) price, and are enduring the nail-biting wait for contracts to be exchanged.

We're filling in the time by pondering a plan of action regarding the steps we'll need to take to rescue the poor, abused little house from a couple of decades of abuse.
The usual things - outside ground levels far too high, so a skip will be filled with concrete; total absence of proper flashings (already got quotes for replacing cement fillets with proper lead); and the whole back return floor (ie kitchen/breakfast room) absolutely rotten. And lots more, but I'll come to them later.

Our immediate concern is the kitchen floor.
Under the sheet vinyl is rotting chipboard on some sort of joists/battens; A bit of investigation has revealed that there is soil about 8 inches down.
So the obvious thing to do is strip out all the units, remove the floor, and start again from scratch.
So far we've come up with a couple of options - either a solid, breathable floor, or a suspended wooden one.

Opinions and suggestions, please!

 

[AMc]

If the joists are sound then I'd dig out and provide ventilation, then insulate and put a new suspended floor on top.
If the joists aren't in good condition then I'd dig out much deeper and put in a solid floor with insulation and wet underfloor heating.
The solid floor will be much more work, disruption and cost but if the joists are dead then I would go that way - if it were mine.

 

[MatthewC]

My immediate response is to say to have a nice solid breathable limecrete floor, but that could just be because I like so much the one I did in my kitchen. However, leaving aside that (slight) prejudice, I have the feeling that lots of older houses have a solid floor in the kitchen rather than a suspended floor with boards on joists. You don't say how old the house is, but a 1930s house that I used to own and my parents 1920s house both had a solid floor in the kitchen and suspended floors elsewhere, just as this one from 1840s does. Was this just the way it used to be done or was there a good reason (like probable rotting of wood floor in damp kitchen)?

Looking forward to photos...!

 

[philpjuk100]

Good luck,I`m sure the house is in good hands! phil.

 

[Flyfisher]

Unless there was some big complicating factor (that's my disclaimer out of the way :wink: ), my instinct would be to do like-for-like and put in a new suspended floor after making sure the void ventilation was adequate and replacing any wood that was clearly end-of-life.

It might not last forever but should be good for at least 30-40 years, which would be enough for me. :lol:

 

[Flyfisher]

. . . total absence of proper flashings (already got quotes for replacing cement fillets with proper lead);

Good call. We had no proper flashings and it was only a very draughty roofspace (for which pantiles excel!) that saved most of the roof timbers.

Cement fillets seem about as useful as a chocolate teapot. OK, slightly better - I guess cement fillets probably work during their first year, whereas a chocolate teapot wouldn't handle it's first brew very well.

 

[Penners]

La-La-La-La... I'm not listening, in the hope that this will all go away.

 

[Penners]

So far we've come up with a couple of options - either a solid, breathable floor, or a suspended wooden one.

But please tell us more about the house, dear Moo. For a start, what vintage is it?

If the house probably had a suspended kitchen floor originally, I would stick with that. Obviously the rotten chipboard needs to bid you farewell, and once you've ripped that up you can get a look at the state of the joists to see whether they need repair/replacement. That will also be an ideal time to pack some insulation between the joists, too.

One proviso though - what type of floorcovering do you want to have? If you want tiles, then I withdraw the above suggestion and suggest that you should have concrete (or limecrete if your tiles will be breathable terracotta). It's my (limited) experience that no matter how solid you make a suspended floor, covering it with tiles always sows the seeds of future problems with cracking grout.

 

[jocelyn plummer]

photosphotosphotos
PLEASE!

 

[middi]

I would have thought that you had learned a lesson by now Moo, a brand spanking new bungalow would have saved you a lot of trouble

Middi

 

[Moo]

You're right, of course, Middi. But I just can't resist sad little houses that have been abused and need someone to love them.

No chance of any pictures yet, because of all that tedious legal procedure, but you can get a rough idea of what it's like from this: http://www.ludlowthompson.com/property-for-sale-in-ulverscroft-road/490582. It's almost identical to ours, except that it's been totally 'done up' (and ours has a much nicer garden!).

Regarding the kitchen/breakfast room floor, I'm inclined to go with the suspended wooden floor option because, providing we can achieve proper sub-floor ventilation, I feel that there's less chance of further damp problems rearing their ugly heads. Mind you, ££££££ are a pretty important factor!

Three weeks to go before exchange of contracts, and then it's all systems go as we whittle away at our possessions so that there's a chance that the residue will fit into the new house (downsizing from 2,500 to just over 1,000 sq ft!)

 

[Penners]

That looks like a classic archetypal London Victorian house - very similar to one that Young Mr P and his wife had until three years ago. I always think they have a welcoming, friendly feel about them. So if it all works out, I do hope you'll be very happy there.

I suggest that your first purchase should be a giant shoehorn - at well under half the existing floor area, I think you may need it!

 

[tobydog]

My sister used to live in Ulverscroft Road. She had a one bed ground floor with garden that was converted from a house similar to this. Are you actually going for a house in this road / area?

 

[Moo]

Yes, it's a bog-standard Victorian terrace. They were thrown up in their thousands at the turn of the 19th/20th century and are now being gentrified within an inch of their lives.

And yes again - we'll be just round the corner from Ulverscroft Road. Only a step away from the foodie delights of Lordship Lane, which means that being without a kitchen will be an excellent excuse for not having to cook at all.
One of the things I love about our present house is the proximity to the market and the rest of the city, and this bit of Dulwich is a sort of miniature version (as is the house!)

Oh, by the way, there will be another little problem to be solved in our attempt to use Penners's shoehorn - the cellar.
At the moment we're blessed with a lovely big one which accommodates our laundry/workshop/computer and a pool table.
All we'll have in Dulwich is a narrow, damp underground passage underneath the hall and we'd really like to get it usable, if only to house the washing machine and some essential tools.
I'm guessing that we could do something about ventilation by inserting a vent into the front doorstep and replacing the cellar door with a louvred one, and installing a radiator. Do you think that will be enough, or should we be considering a dehumidifier as well?

 

[LadyArowana]

Oh, by the way, there will be another little problem to be solved in our attempt to use Penners's shoehorn - the cellar.
At the moment we're blessed with a lovely big one which accommodates our laundry/workshop/computer and a pool table.
All we'll have in Dulwich is a narrow, damp underground passage underneath the hall and we'd really like to get it usable, if only to house the washing machine and some essential tools.
I'm guessing that we could do something about ventilation by inserting a vent into the front doorstep and replacing the cellar door with a louvred one, and installing a radiator. Do you think that will be enough, or should we be considering a dehumidifier as well?

You could always join the mole people with a little help from http://www.londonbasement.co.uk/

 

[JoceAndChris]

Such an exciting - if nail biting - time for you.

I find a gentle dehumidifier in our basement kitchen/laundry room very good - we don't have it on all the time, just during wet periods ( which is often high summer, curiously)
You might find that heat and ventilation is enough, suck it and see I suppose.

The rebuilding of the suspended floor sounds like a very worthwhile thing to be doing. You'll be so busy Moo you won't have time to miss Norwich!

Are the kitchen units not ones you want to keep though?

 

[Feltwell]

It's almost identical to ours, except that it's been totally 'done up' (and ours has a much nicer garden!).

It's not been very well done up though - there's a tree growing out of one fireplace for starters! And the price......

Seriously, looks like a nice type of house Moo, even if you will need that shoehorn. I do like Victorian houses - they give a nice blend of "periodness" but with compatibility with how we live now, if you know what I mean. I lived (briefly) in West Dulwich, so quite close by - it was a good area, had I wanted to stay in London I would have quite happily lived there.

 

[jocelyn plummer]

Grown up version of our little house Moo, and similar to J's son's house in te same neck of the woods. Here's hoping for a smooth 3 weeks towards completion !! xx

 

[worms]

I find a gentle dehumidifier in our basement kitchen/laundry room very good - we don't have it on all the time, just during wet periods ( which is often high summer, curiously)

I don't find that curious at all!

Winter - Outside average temp 5/6C, outside humidity 80-95%, inside average temp 15-20C, central heating and woodburner sucking huge amounts of air through the building, inside humidity 35-60%, inside walls colder than inside ambient air but low humidity, so no condensation/damp issues.

Summer - Outside average temp 12-20, outside humidity 60-95%, inside average temp 12-16C, no heating, no woodburner, inside humidity 60-70%, inside walls colder than incoming air = potential for condensation especially when outside humidity rises during wet spells and potential for mould growth in places where there is little air movement.

So for us, the dehumidifier is most needed in summer/early autumn.

 

[Moo]

That's all very encouraging. We're going to need to make use of every inch of available space, so the cellar is pretty crucial. Are dehumidifiers very expensive to run?