New Central Heating

[paddytt]

Hello.

We have bought a c1600 thatched & timber framed detached house, 5 bed. There is a central heating system part-installed by the previous owner, but we have been recommended by our surveyor/architect to completely replace it with a new system. We have been quoted £13k for installation inc. connection to an LPG gas tank, boiler, new pipework and 16 radiators, which was more than we expected. Any thoughts or experience on this?

Two large downstairs rooms have raised wooden floors. Any suggestions for the best heating system for these rooms?

We would like the LPG system since we can bury the tank, there is no suitable place for an above ground oil or gas tank.

thanks

paddytt

 

[Keithj]

Greetings!

We need pictures of the house, needless to say!

The price will depend to some extent where you are, and on the details of what you install (radiator type, that sort of thing). Some radiators are cheap, some are very definitely not. Digging a hole to bury a gas tank will cost a bit in digger and skip hire.

I was quoted £8½k about three years ago for a new boiler, new hot water system (hot water tank and the pipework), and a couple of new radiators in a house in Essex. We declined the offer, sold the house, and moved to a 15th century pair of cottages in Suffolk (with a working oil-fired heating system).

I assume the house is listed. If you've not spoken to your conservation officer yet, give him a call. They can be very helpful (ours is) and may even know suitable organisations who know how to do heating in listed properties.

 

[middi]

HI.

Obtain more than one quote with the emphasis on the correctly routing of pipework through a timber framed building. Discuss this with (qualified) installers.

It can be time consuming routing pipework correctly, and with care. Some installers will drill indiscriminately through sensitive beams or excessively damage floorboards to facilitate the installation.


Middi

 

[paddytt]

Thanks for the quick replies.

Here are a couple of photos. The previous owner has already made routings for most of the pipework, some of which will need changing. The quote is for standard modern radiators.

Any suggestions where to find a plumber experienced in timber framed property?

regards

paddytt

 

[MdB]

Sounds a lot to me. Our GSHP was £5.5k for all parts but we self installed (hard work but easyish).

 

[paddytt]

A couple of photos attached. Any suggestions where to find a central heating plumber experienced in timber framed properties in Suffolk?




View attachment 1

 

[Keithj]

We're in Suffolk, just north of Ipswich. We have a brilliant local plumber (and friend) who does all our stuff, but I know he won't go as far as Hengrave. He may know someone in that area. I'll ask him.

The expert who masterminded the repairs to our house lives not far from Bury St Eds, and uses a variety of expert subcontractors. She'll probably know a suitable plumber with the expertise for period houses.

E-mail me - keef at keef dot org dot uk - and I'll pass on some names and numbers.

 

[robgil]

Its a shame I am so busy, I'd have done it for you.
There are ways to save money by doing a lot of the work your self, you dont need to be qualified to do the pipework, you do to install the LPG boiler. Because it is LPG your search for an LPG engineer who can work on period timber frame may be difficult si you might have to split the work between a few different people/firms.
What did the Calor surveyor say that makes you believe you cannot fit a surface tank?

Edit-surface mount pipework in an old house can be made to look like it was meant to be, and has always been there with a bit of clever thinking.
Trying to hide it usually makes it look much much worse.
Did you say it was thatched? Check your insurance, I can only use compression fittings on my first floor plumbing, no soldering.

 

[robgil]

Was the first installation signed off by building control? If not you can work this to your advantage. :wink:

 

[paddytt]

No, it's wasn't... do I still need to involve Buildings control or conservation?

 

[paddytt]

What did the Calor surveyor say that makes you believe you cannot fit a surface tank?

Access for fitting and filling is difficult except where there is a nice piece of garden by the back door - it was our choice really. Don't want to spoil the view.

Edit-surface mount pipework in an old house can be made to look like it was meant to be, and has always been there with a bit of clever thinking.

Do you have any pics or web links to show how this can be done?


many thanks!

paddytt

 

[jocelyn plummer]

What a beautiful house!

 

[CatherineB]

Ditto joss, lovely house!

 

[Andrew Bodenham]

paddytt,

Lovely looking house.

Installing ch is always going to be an invasive process, and some damage or alteration of building fabric is inevitable. From my own experience of putting ch into a couple of houses I think the key thing is to get good tradespeople who you can trust to take care, even if this means paying a bit more. Actually I think the best way forward is to develop the skills yourself and do as much diy as possible, because you then have the time to do things in a way which might not be profitable for a contractor.

Where you have suspended floors it may be possible to run pipework beneath these, depending on access. In which case it would also make sense to retro-fit insulation to the underside of the floor to reduce heat loss from the room. In other areas I think it's best (in a house with 'heritage' value) to be 'visually honest' about the installation by not worrying about exposed pipework. If you use 8 or 10mm microbore pipe this can be surface mounted in corners or run along skirtings quite neatly, and a coat of paint in a matching colour will greatly reduce the visual impact. Using microbore means that the inevitable holes through walls and floors are much less significant than if using the more traditional 22mm & 15mm pipework. With hindsight I wish that I'd used a microbore system in my own house.

I'd also steer well clear of any of the plastic pipework systems, as they can be susceptible to rodent attack, and also require more physical support. I'd use copper every time.

 

[paddytt]

Thanks for the advice.

Two ground floor rooms have suspended timber floors (over bare soil). What sort of insulation would you recommend that would pass the convervation officer?

regards

TT

 

[Keithj]

What sort of insulation would you recommend that would pass the convervation officer?

I expect one of the COs here will answer that in more detail, but the stuff we've bought lots of (and installed it) is Celotex or its brother, called Quinn Therm. The floor, walls, and ceiling of our add-on garden room are full of it. It's surprisingly effective.

 

[AMc]

Thanks for the advice.

Two ground floor rooms have suspended timber floors (over bare soil). What sort of insulation would you recommend that would pass the convervation officer?

regards

TT

Maintain an air gap underneath for ventilation and to prevent moisture moving up.
Depending on how deep the joist are you can go for rockwool/sheepswool in chicken wire slung between the joists up to celotex/kingspan/ecotherm etc al solid board foam insulation carefully cut and fitted - still maintaining ventilation underneath.
Whatever you fit pay attention to the fit - small ventilation losses a.k.a. draughts can reduce the effectiveness of insulation by as much as 75%.

I can't imagine a CO would mind what you use as long as you respect the structure with reversible changes and careful work but your CO is the only one who can be definitive about your house.