New bay window

[JohnArmer]

Next year's project is going to be to replace the 1960s very sorry-looking and rotten casement bay window at the front of our 1870s cottage (really a stone terraced house in plan except it has no neighbours). It's an all-timber single-storey bay (ie no stone mullions) and we plan to re-instate with a sash bay as it would have had originally. It's got a flat roof and we plan to replace all that at the same time.

Does anyone have any tips / advice worth bearing in mind? One thing I'm not sure about is the arrangement of the guttering. It seems most gutters today run around the front of the bay, but I've read that originally bay roofs of this type sloped back and rainwater ran into a channel against the front wall of the house. It's worth noting that there are no gutters on the bay at the moment, probably why the window has failed. Is lead still the stuff to go for or are modern alternatives worth considering?

 

[MatthewC]

The front bay on my 1840s house (semi-detached) has no gutters at all. The lead slopes to the front and the overhang is sufficient to keep drips off the venetian sash window. It is dry now, but damp prevention was not a forte for the people who built and maintained this place!

 

[plasticpigeon]

Do you have an idea of what it looked like originally?

I'd have thought most bays would have had slates, mine had zinc sheet but I think that is because it was/is a budget house. Sorry missd that you said it was flat. yes I'd have thought lead would be the best option. One thing would be to say make sure that the supporting wall below has reasonable foundations, they sometimes were pretty much built on the ground (mine has a 2 course depth foundation) and you may as well get the base good before doing anything else. Mind you if it hasn't moved sonce it was built that is a pretty good indication that it is all sound even if the footings are small. I wouldn't channel water towards the house. Also buy a book such as cassell's carpentry and joinery, or modern practical joinery by ellis to give you ideas on style and construction.

 

[Lime]

I have one bay window and consider that it was original when I bought the house (built C1906) 20 odd years ago.
The roof section consisted of (going up) plaster and lath, 4x4 joists (mounted on the brick and stone bay), floorboards, one complete layer of loose fitting bricks (all thirds or worse, never seen such a collection of misshapes totalling 96 bricks) another 4x4 frame (sitting on the bricks), planks (with little slope) and sheet lead constructed with rolls and a small lead gutter within the lead near the outer edge draining out to a small diameter lead pipe.

I doubt the roofs that have no guttering are original.

 

[JohnArmer]

Thanks for the replies. Based on other similar houses in Lancaster that still have their original bays, I think it would have been all-timber with a flat roof. There isn't really room for a pitched roof (the upstairs bedroom window is too close to the downstairs).

I've had a couple of people out to look and the consensus seems to be DG units with springs rather than pulleys and weights as springs support the weight of the glazed units better. I'm not sure which roofing material to go with on the flat roof; I think lead will be the most expensive though.

Interesting comments about the bay's foundations. I think there may have been some movement in the past, but it seems pretty solid now.

 

[Feltwell]

My bay is shown on this old thread:-

http://periodproperty.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=11602&start=15&hilit=film+glazing

The roof does slope towards the back and it has a channel against the house wall, which drains into the hopper you can see. Like you, there is not enough height between the top of the bay and the bottom of the cill of the window above, to have a sloping roof - the bay has always had a flat roof.

The roof has clearly leaked in the past, judging by some damage to coving inside the lounge, but is watertight now. It's currently a felt roof but I'm thinking of changing to lead - reason being, the roof needs re-doing as there is no upstand on the front edge, in fact the front 6" or so slopes forward, so water drips when it rains, down onto the bay cill below. This is causing rot in the wooden frame and damp in the bay wall.

Lead should be the best, my only worry is thieving little b@st@ards might be tempted to strip it.

 

[JohnArmer]

Finally this is progressing... the new bay is under construction in iroko and we hope to have it in next month.

The joiner invited me to visit his workshop and have a look at the progress:



The centre window will be a sliding sash, the sides will be fixed. Any paint recommendations?

We did discover that the timber lintels at the front spanning the bay are completely rotten, and the front wall of the house above the bay is slowly sinking towards the cellar. Cue some rather structural pinning and replacement lintels before the bay goes in. The joys of an old house!

 

[paulb33]

Any paint recommendations?

Histocolour Linseed Oil Paint is going well on our tropical hardwood (sapele from sustainable source - apparently). Histocolour has nice colours. Should prevent rot recurring. See this thread: http://www.periodproperty.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=14118&start=45

 

[JohnArmer]

Since i know you all like pics, here are two - the old window:



And the new one that's just gone in:



It's yet to be painted and the lead roof goes on next week.

Gareth suggested that a new front door might be next, but I don't know - I think the white plastic one is quite attractive, don't you think? ;-)

John

 

[Feltwell]

That is SO much better John - it will look great when finished. I take it the upstairs window is to be replaced with a sash as well?

Quite agree on keeping the UPVC front door - it's part of the history of the house now, after all :wink:

 

[JohnArmer]

Thank you, yes we thought it looked better too.

The upstairs window will be replaced with a matching sash (the joiner measured up for it when he'd finished fitting the bay)... and the door in due course. Next year the plan is to get some scaffolding and remove the ribbon pointing and repoint in lime, so the house will be mostly de-modernised. Funny how fashions change. I think this is for the better though.

 

[Feltwell]

I didn't like to mention the ribbon pointing! It's not nice, is it?

Odd how your house is a very different stone to next door - I presume they were built at different times.

What did you decide to do with the guttering in the end, a rear channel into a hopper as per mine or guttering round the front?

I need to get a lead worker in soon to redo my roof, stop it dripping down the front. No point in my doing all the work to cut out the rotten sections and scarf in new timber if I don't address what caused it to rot to begin with - someone scarfed in new sections about 10 years ago (I think) and they're all rotten. I've been putting off doing this window for ages but Mrs F's little wasp-swatting incident (she broke the glass) has moved it up the priority list, as the glass was holding the sash frame together so it's not an easy replacement!

What's with your cellar "window"? Looks a little odd at present - is it just an old coal hole that someone has blocked up with a hole left for ventilation?

 

[plasticpigeon]

realloy nice, it transforms the house, once again your joiners look to have done a very nice job. I'm pleased people on this forum manage to find good tradespeople.

 

[JohnArmer]

The ribbon pointing is actually very well done, it's just that it covers up too much of the nicely dressed stone. I think it was done about forty years ago... I've pictures of it before it was done. It comes off ok with an old chisel and small hammer.

The guttering will run round the front of the bay and will tap into the downspout.

The house has quite an interesting past - it was built as a two up two down cottage (in effect a terraced house in plan, but on its own). Sometime later, a barn was built on to it to the right, and a second two up two down cottage built on the back. The two houses were then converted to one (probably in the early 1900s) and the barn was rebuilt as a house in the 1980s.

The window under the bay is just that - a window into the cellar. Somebody has put a big sandstone flag in front of it which is why it looks a bit strange in the picture (it's square). The plan is to re-open the light well and let more light into the cellar (but it will need a new window, so not just a few quid to do it).

I'm delighted with the bay window, I'd not used the joiner before but had seen his work and was impressed. I gave the go-ahead in November, and he was booked up for 6 months which I took as a good sign too.