Neighbours

[keatsie]

Neighbours are a pain, i include myself in that statement....whats worse is i think i am potentially in the wrong for what i thought were the right reasons.

We had a section at the rear of our land that is about 15 meters long with a 1.2 meter two bar fence. So its open at the rear, we have a hedge about 1.2 meters from the fence, some scrawny leylandi whcih we have removed and what was the remnants of a 2 meter fence basically 3 old panels. We decided to change the fence to a 2 meter larch lap fence using the exisitng fence as a frame work. To be honest it looks quite good but, trying to chat with one of our neighbours it turns out he is quite annoyed about the new fence and was really quite rude and aggressive, which got our backs up so we continued to complete the fence.

I expect some formal complaint so i thought i would just check we were in the right to put up the fence, but it seems we have a restricted covenant that restricts us from changing, altering or erecting a fence on the boundry of our retained land.

I am wondering if this is enforcable, oue neighbours have changed there fencing and we didnt object - if this did go to complaint ehats the normal process and are these things truely enforcable? Just seems odd that we are the only party not allowed privacy or fencing to allow the dogs access to the garden etc.

I just apprecaite opinions.

 

[MikeG]

Larch lap fences aren't the only means of keeping dogs in gardens. I really don't know why anyone would ever work on a boundary without chatting to the owner of the adjacent land first. It's antagonising. Your neighbours view has gone from being open, with a 4 foot post and rail fence, to being closed-in by a 7 foot high thing. This is radical in someone's garden. Possibly the most radical thing you can do, and I don't imagine you'd be very happy if the situation was reversed.

If you suspect you have a covenant, consult your solicitor. They're all bespoke, so no-one here will be able to give you a definitive answer. IANAL, but I believe all covenants have a beneficiary, so the answer you get will depend not only on the wording of the covenant but on the attitude (or continued existence) of the beneficiary.

 

[keatsie]

Just to be clear, its not on a neighbours adjoining garden it opens out on to a small communal bit of grass then a large open gravel drive and guest car parking spaces for four houses on a new development. Its not actually adjoing anyones actual space as such which is why we didnt think it would be a problem.

 

[Flyfisher]

I really don't know why anyone would ever work on a boundary without chatting to the owner of the adjacent land first. It's antagonising. Your neighbours view has gone from being open, with a 4 foot post and rail fence, to being closed-in by a 7 foot high thing. This is radical in someone's garden. Possibly the most radical thing you can do, and I don't imagine you'd be very happy if the situation was reversed.

Problem is, there are two sides to every fence. The neighbour might well wish to retain their open view across your garden or land but as I understand things they have no absolute right to such a view. Meanwhile, you may have a quite reasonable wish for privacy from your neighbour's view into your garden or land.

In such circumstances it's often difficult to find a middle ground. Chatting to the neighbour might help but what are you going to chat about? Would you really give up your privacy because your neighbour enjoys the view into your garden?

Difficult.

 

[Minkeycat]

We're on the receiving end of a neighbour changing boundaries (don't worry, it's not you!) and feel very much like victims in the matter. It's been ongoing for a very long time and all the professionals (COs, planners, solicitors, insurers) we approach to help us has told us that "it's more trouble than it's worth", "It's very expensive and there's no guarantee you'll win", "All your proof [from existing physical evidence, maps, deeds, photographic, historic, anecdotal, written statements from other neighbours supporting you etc] is circumstantial" and "You can't make the neighbour prove it was his wall that he took down" has meant that he gets away with what he's done and we have to foot the bill to correct it all while he gets away with effectively stealing tons of old stone to use elsewhere having cost us our privacy, security, causing us to be broken into, our outlook and prevented us from letting our dogs out onto what is 50% of our land.
So I would say, based on our experience, unless you're a decent person in which case your own morals will stop you, do exactly what you like and cause your neighbour to pay for correcting what you've done if they want it changed. But be careful because your neighbour might have an ace up their sleeve...

 

[Flyfisher]

If you want some eye-openers about how difficult boundary disputes can be try reading the Gardenlaw.co.uk forum (boundary section). There is also a very good introduction about why your property title only shows 'indicative' boundaries and is very rarely absolute. This opens the door to all manner of disputes, which can often only be decided by arbitration where the outcome can often be very much against the 'defendant'.

One dispute I recall was someone who returned from holiday to find their neighbour had replaced their own boundary fence, encroaching into their neighbour's garden by a couple of feet. The new fence was the property of the neighbour and so could not be removed without the risk of a criminal damage charge and because the title deeds only showed an 'indicative' boundary there was no absolute proof of the original boundary. Another classic situation is where a hedge has been planted against a boundary fence. The fence eventually falls into disrepair and is be removed without being replaced. Over time the new boundary becomes the planting of the hedge line such that one side gains a little land and the other side loses a little.

The old saying 'good fences make good neighbours' is very true.

 

[Feltwell]

Another classic situation is where a hedge has been planted against a boundary fence. The fence eventually falls into disrepair and is be removed without being replaced. Over time the new boundary becomes the planting of the hedge line such that one side gains a little land and the other side loses a little.

Ha ha, guess what I've spent this weekend doing? Half killing myself planting a hedge along one side of my garden, in part to hide a functional but ugly fence that belongs to a neighbour! Eventually the fence will rot and I think the hedge will become the new boundary........

Why half killing myself? Well, the area concerned is, I found out, where the Victorian owners of Feltwell Towers dumped their rubbish - and at some point there was a wall along this line. I have never dug so much rubble and huge lumps of stone out of one area in all my life, there were 3 courses of brick buried about 6" beneath the current surface, and then big lumps of stone that must have been put in as foundations beneath that. The rubbish dump was there because I dug out all manner of buried treasure - lots and lots of broken glass and pottery, animal bones and rusted lumps of metal. I did however get a few nice complete bottles out, including one branded as "OD Murphy & Sons, Ironbridge & Wellington" - that was the company that owned my house and the brewery, latterly a mineral water works, that was behind it.

I solved a mystery though - aerial pictures from 1947 on https://britainfromabove.org.uk/ (well worth reviewing if you haven't) show a ruined small building at the end of my garden, which didn't seem to align with any of the current boundaries so I didn't know where it was. I found it - complete with concrete floor slab which I had to partially break out to plant the hedge (how many times does gardening require an SDS breaker :roll - and it looks like the building straddled the boundary between my garden and the house behind, which is odd.

The more I look at the old pictures the more I think that whoever lived here nicked a bit of land to extend the garden after the brewery was knocked down in 1972!

 

[Feltwell]

Bit off-topic, but the nice bit about Britain From Above is that you can zoom a long way in - the resolution is pretty good. Here's the ruined building that I found the floor slab for today:-



There's 5 pictures on there that show my house, alas all are from 1947, but it's helped me solve a couple of puzzles and it's really interesting to see how what's around me has changed.