Neighbours - using my roof to work on their house?

[Sue Wilkinson]

My house and my neighbours house are joined at one end. But their house is 3 stories tall and ours only 2 so they can't get to the top of their gable very easily.

They didn't ask us mind you, they forgot. They just told us scaffold was coming and that it would be errected in our garden and on and over our roof, so they could have their gable wall repointed in incorrect mix, 6:2:1 (sand:hydrate:cement). I have done other pointing repairs for them in pure fat lime, but for some reason I was not asked to do this work even though I said I would. I suspect they didn't want to wait for the time it would take me to do it properly and look after it. I've given them books and talked to them extensively about the mixes they should use and should avoid, but of course the guy doing the job will only do it this way. Anyway, I digress. I said that they could put this scaffold up and access it from my garden at inconvienience to me, provided no weight was put on my roof. Its old, obviously, and the join between the two houses is a rough cement flaunch that's cracked, split and moved apart and filled with mastic. (Another job for when there is some money available to replace it with lead). They agreed to my request.

This morning I go outside to find the guy hacking out the pointing with some sort of hammer, lying on his back on my roof tiles. Not a bit of him touching the platforms or scaffold. So, am I over-reacting or could this cause problems to my roof and the join between the two houses? He wasn't using anything to spread the weight like a roof ladder, just lying on the tiles. This will mean he'll do the same to repoint that area I guess.

I'm riled anyway because the man doesn't understand the difference between hydrated, hydraulic and putty. I asked a simple question yesterday to test him and got a completely rubbish answer, yet he got the work anyway.

Sue

 

[Schoolmarm]

Get him off your roof immediately. Yes he will damage it and yes they will all deny it was their fault.

Tell your neighbours the work will be halted and scaff removed if he does it again.

They need to think of a safer way to work which won't damage your roof.

Did the scaffolders go on your roof to erect the scaff?

I would not have consented I don't think. Cheeky beggars.

 

[Schoolmarm]

Oh and go to the forum on this link for some more advice;



http://www.gardenlaw.co.uk

 

[GK]

Who really wants to fall out with someone whose house is connected and who engages you for work?

Slates, pantiles, plain tiles, all liable to crack and fall away with the weight of an adult. If one does, the oppo will sneakily slide the cracked bit back up and hope it stays there until he's gone.

Of course when you ask him to desist you will be accused of sour grapes because you gave advice and feel peeved that they've got an "expert" in.

No, it's an impossible situation. Wot Schoolmarm said. Fall out with them big time.

 

[Craig]

Also, point out that his working method may well be illegal under health and safety law and that they (and you) as client/landowners, etc. could be held liable.

 

[Nemesis]

Party Wall Act?

 

[Gareth Hughes]

Trespass, I reckon, never mind Party Wall Act

 

[Sue Wilkinson]

We don't want to fall out because we get on well with them and socialise with them. Its just they can be a bit bulldozing as far as other people's feelings go.

We've been accommodating so far, allowing all this, and I'm well fed up of having strange men parading up and down the length of my house all day long. But we've repeatedly said "no weight on the roof" and I've photographed the chap up there with no weight on the scaffold!

Anyway, I was too cross to do it, but my husband is upstairs in his office with the neighbour now, being diplomatic I hope. I think he's making it plain that as we can't see an alternative method for them doing this, they are absolutely liable for any and all damage we sustain and making sure the neighbour knows we are unhappy that our requests were ignored. I think the scaffold construction is wrong actually. I think they could have done it differently and given them much more working area in a sort of hanging cradle. There's a big gantry spanning the roof, but nothing hanging from it..

Sue

 

[Schoolmarm]

It might be worth paying another scaff firm to come and say how it should have been done and prepare a report.


If they are friends they shouldn't have done it all last minute and put you in this position.

 

[skier-hughes]

Or just phone the HSE and say that you are worried that this chap will come to harm and get them to come out and make him do it properly.

 

[middi]

I wonder where you stand legally if one of these roofers was found with a broken kneck in your garden because he slid off the scaffolding above your roof whych you gave permission to use.

I suppose that the good news is that he would cause no more damage, but he may leave you in a pickle legally.

 

[Aidan]

Digital camera, take pictures of all the near-by bits of roof and get two copies of the pictures. Highlight all the existing damage. Take pictures of any damage visible from inside the roof. Get the contractor to sign one copy of all of the pictures, and a signed agreement that their scaffolding will be made available for you to inspect the roof at the end. Point out that they need to list any existing damages and defects, because they will be making good all that aren't listed at the end of the project. Check it as best you can when the scaffolders have finished. Schedule of dilapidations is the official term, I believe. I think the party wall act would allow you to employ a surveyor, at their expense, to do this for you. If there's a dispute, I think you'd have to recover any damages from your neighbour and he would then recover it from his contractors; you need to avoid this happening.

I had a devious cowboy builder stomping all over my slate roof many years back.

You are usually asked tosign a similar list of scratches and dents when you take your car in for a service.

 

[skier-hughes]

The only other problem you may have, is that which appears once the scaffold has been removed, the pressure points may break tiles you can't see until it's taken down - or when it starts raining again

 

[NT]

For once I agree with Aiden, a schedule of condition should be part of the party wall agreement, as can be a deposit to cover damages they refuse to acknowledge. Permitting them to go ahead as is is just bound to cause hostility, its a recipe for trouble.

Sounds like your neighbour is taking a liberty, probably out of ignorance. I think I'd order them off to be honest, as continuing is only going to stir up problems between you anyway. I'd say this is not at all what was agreed to, and no I dont agree to this. And since there has been a significant misunderstanding the only sensible thing left to do now is to draw up a formal pwa agreement and stick to it, so there will be no further cause for crossed wires or ill feeling.


NT

 

[Sue Wilkinson]

Thanks all, we have had a discussion with our neighbour, who was shocked that the workers were on the roof tiles as he had specified they were not to do that.

He then went and told them it wasn't acceptable. He and they have come up with some other method involving strapping ladders to the scaffold as slings to work from. He's asked me to keep my eye on them and said he will too. He's reported one broken tile that was supposed to be there before and has some silicone in it. I will be going up to check all this and as you suggest to photo it today as they aren't working here at the moment.

Its the join between the two houses that worries me the most. I can't get into that area of the roof cavity very easily, so I'll be relying on what I can see from the surface. As far as I can see from the ground the scaffolders have done a good job of not touching the roof with any of the poles. It was just the builders that ignored the instruction.

I shall be monitoring. I don't think I can ask them to stop or this would cause problems with our friendship, but I won't be willing to do it again. I don't like it at all.

Sue

 

[NT]

Maybe they'll follow instructions now. I cant say I have faith in that, but lets hope.

NT

 

[Craig]

I do believe that if there are people working dangerously on your property and you are aware and do nothing you can be held liable. H&S is no joke these days. Sorry to be dull, but it happens and workmen can do the darnest things.