Neighbour/builder disputes

[Thatspellstrouble]

Hi all,

Bit of a general moan here but if anyone has any advice it's greatly appreciated.

My neighbour has recently built an extension on his Victorian terrace. We don't have gardens just small yards. He's extended to cover all of the yard, and built just up to my property with a small gap left inbetween my wall and his.

As the gap is so narrow between the houses, they removed the guttering that was attached to my wall on his side of the property (unsure if this counts as a party wall as I did not give permission for this) and only discovered this when my wall in the first floor bathroom About 2.2 metres up started getting a big wet patch which has only gotton bigger. I'll try and post photos below.

I contacted the owner whom is a live out landlord and he put me in touch with his builders to sort.

They 'Investigated' and found a broken roof tile (quite sure not broken previously) and put what looks like cellotape on to 'fix'.

Obviously this did not resolve the issue as the plasterboard is still wet. They are now saying it's condensation and I need to cut the plaster out which will show the bricks behind are dry... I think they are just fobbing me off but my main issue is that because of how close they built the extension, I can't access the external side of the wall for any brick repairs needed.

If worst comes to worst, is it possible to take out bricks internally to get access to the external ones? I just had most of my bathroom done so I'm hesitant to do anything internally for now.

Bit more backstory, the wall is plasterboard with dot and dab. The extension didn't have planning permission until I reported it to the council (who have been entirely unhelpful in this saying it's all a civil issue).

I think I will have to go down some sort of legal route but I don't really know what my chances are like. Should I try some sort of surveyor first?

 

[erikwoolf]

Is the 3rd picture showing the junction between your roof and the extension (flat roof going under your roof tiles)?

 

[Cubist]

May be worth an enquiry with the local planning office to see whether the proper procedures were followed and permissions granted there for all aspects.

 

[Thatspellstrouble]

Is the 3rd picture showing the junction between your roof and the extension (flat roof going under your roof tiles)?

Yes it appears like it, I've attached a photo from another angle. The space was previously where the guttering was.

May be worth an enquiry with the local planning office to see whether the proper procedures were followed and permissions granted there for all aspects.

I've tried that I believe, pointing out what I think they surely didn't get permission for (not that I'm an expert) they just say a lot of it is civil issues only and that the council had no involvement in it. I also tried building control to the same result.

 

[Cubist]

A band-aid repair like that confirms the 'bodger' status of the builder and the lax behaviour of the owner. It won't last - treating effect not cause always fails.

Another idea may be to ask for the owners insurance details as yours may wish to make a claim against them.

 

[erikwoolf]

Yes it appears like it, I've attached a photo from another angle. The space was previously where the guttering was.



I've tried that I believe, pointing out what I think they surely didn't get permission for (not that I'm an expert) they just say a lot of it is civil issues only and that the council had no involvement in it. I also tried building control to the same result.

View attachment 10004

Ok then there are few issues here, if they had to excavate within 3 meters of your property to lay foundation then the work most likely falls within the party wall act (a surveyor or your solicitor can help with that) https://www.ansteyhorne.co.uk/services/party-wall-faqs the work falls within the party wall. even if they didn't have to excavate there must be laws on how close you can build to a neighbouring property..From the photos it dosn't look like the extension was designed properly to account for the impact on your property (I am not an expert but what the photos showing doesn't make sense even to the untrained eye). I will advise to consult both a surveyor and a solicitor asap so you can start documenting the damage and building your case. If indeed the new flat roof of the extension is going under your roof tiles this effectively means that it is redirecting rain water down your wall/bricks (you said they removed the existing gutter, because it is so close to your property you lost the advantage of the water drying out quickly and any previous small defects to your pointing will lead the water straight into your wall (this is why you probably have such an issue with damp already). Others will know better but it is unlikely the issue can be resolved internally if the problem is external water ingress. Hopefully this can be solved by forcing your neighbour to redesign their roof of he extension in a way that allows the wall next to it to be dry (potentially changing the slope so water runs away rather than towards your roof/wall. If not then cannot see how this can be fixed permanently for you without some radical intervention to the new extension..

 

[Neilj]

Looking at the third pic, is the flat roof next door's extension and the slate roof yours? If so they've surely encroached over the boundary of their property and onto yours as the flat roof tucks up underneath your roof overhang? Assuming your roof overhang stays on your side of the boundary line, which it almost certainly will do!

 

[Lacan07]

How on earth did they manage to build that without some kind of permission. That roof looks a proper sh*t show to me, surely they must have realised water was going to run under, over, and down on to the walls. What about driving rain, if it can get under lead flashing it can get into that cavernous gap. It needs some kind of lead soaker under your slate tiles to channel any errant water back down the roof.

The whole purpose of guttering is to keep rain off walls.

 

[eezageeza]

They removed the guttering from your house, without permission?? Isn't that criminal damage, or theft ?

 

[88v8]

They had no right to remove your gutter. Unbelievable.

And as Erikwoolf says, an extension this near comes under the Party Wall Act.
I would instruct a solicitor and require the extension be removed and rebuilt allowing reasonable access to your wall.

Arguably there has been negligence by the Council but you are probably banging your head against a wall there.

The solicitor will advise you as regards necessary reports and evidence.

You are also entitled to damages for rectifying the cost of the damp and reinstating the gutter.

Better if you had been on to this at a much earlier point of course.

 

[StephenB]

As others have correctly pointed out - this was a party wall matter and fell under the Party Wall Act. However, once works have finished the Act cannot be applied retrospectively. What they did without consent will go against them in any legal action, but I doubt you could not use the Act in any meaningful way.

The problem, based on the photos you have provided, is all to do with the detailing between the flat felt roof and your slate roof. Normally the felt should be taken up a slope by at least 150mm and there are other details that would be included. Clearly your slate has not been lifted and the felt is simply tucked under. Any water off the felt will run under the slate and into this area.

They have committed a trespass (and probably criminal damage as a result) and you will probably need to take legal action to remedy.

Practically, the solution is to lift the slate and detail the flat roof junction to your roof properly. Once opened up this may even include installing a lead tray under the junction as a secondary barrier should the main junction fail in future.

If you want to avoid legal action get a suitable professional to write a brief report and provide a suggested solution. Present this to the owner (and builder) and ask them to sort out. Although the builder may be responsible for the work the owner is legally responsible and perhaps this needs to be spelled out.

If they fail to do anything you would have to go to the Court, but may be able to get an order enabling you to undertake the work and then place a charge on the property for the costs - but speak to a solicitor about this. The charge can only be removed if the owner pays you. As soon as the owner re-mortgages the charge will show up and cause the owner problems - prompting them to then pay it.

My comments are based only on your photos and what you have said. You need someone to inspect it properly. You really do need professional (building surveyor) and legal advice.

I am a Chartered Building Surveyor and have dealt with party wall matters. I hope this is helpful.

 

[noj]

Might be worth checking if your home insurance includes legal cover beyond 3rd party liability? It's often bundled and could help.

 

[StephenB]

Insurance cover is useful for claims such as this. There are potentially two problems though.
The first is that they tend to use their 'panel' solicitors and there is no guarantee you will get someone who knows about such matters.
The second is that they tend to only accept cases where they are over 60% certain they will win (some may put a higher figure on it). Often you need to pay for a professional report in the first instance just to persuade them to take on the case.
Subject to such caveats, I would certainly agree that speaking to insurers, if you have cover for legal costs in any claim, would be sensible.

 

[AndrewB]

Hi all,

Bit of a general moan here but if anyone has any advice it's greatly appreciated.

My neighbour has recently built an extension on his Victorian terrace. We don't have gardens just small yards. He's extended to cover all of the yard, and built just up to my property with a small gap left inbetween my wall and his.

As the gap is so narrow between the houses, they removed the guttering that was attached to my wall on his side of the property (unsure if this counts as a party wall as I did not give permission for this) and only discovered this when my wall in the first floor bathroom About 2.2 metres up started getting a big wet patch which has only gotton bigger. I'll try and post photos below.

I contacted the owner whom is a live out landlord and he put me in touch with his builders to sort.

They 'Investigated' and found a broken roof tile (quite sure not broken previously) and put what looks like cellotape on to 'fix'.

Obviously this did not resolve the issue as the plasterboard is still wet. They are now saying it's condensation and I need to cut the plaster out which will show the bricks behind are dry... I think they are just fobbing me off but my main issue is that because of how close they built the extension, I can't access the external side of the wall for any brick repairs needed.

If worst comes to worst, is it possible to take out bricks internally to get access to the external ones? I just had most of my bathroom done so I'm hesitant to do anything internally for now.

Bit more backstory, the wall is plasterboard with dot and dab. The extension didn't have planning permission until I reported it to the council (who have been entirely unhelpful in this saying it's all a civil issue).

I think I will have to go down some sort of legal route but I don't really know what my chances are like. Should I try some sort of surveyor first?

View attachment 9998

View attachment 9999

View attachment 10000

View attachment 10001

View attachment 10002

Curious what happened with this! Did you have any luck resolving the situation?

 

[edscull]

I hate people who do this, build so close to the wall. Its like what do people do when they need to get that side pointed up. U see this stuff on nightmare neighbours.
Keep records of all the damages it's causing, rec videos when it rains, rec texts and emails. These stuff take year's to try and sort. Best to try and sue the neighbour.

 

[Thatspellstrouble]

Hi guys, minimal update really,

Surveyor came over today and pointed out the flat roof wasn't in line with the planning permissions, he's a bit skeptical on the ability to prove in court the wet wall is a direct result of the builders actions, he's going to ring the council and see why the planning has not been declined along with a few other points and write up a statement for me to take to a solicitor. He's thinking small claims court but I'm unsure how you'd assign value to future inability to repair that wall externally.

I like that he was talking about breathability of walls and advantages of lime so at least he has some historical knowledge as well to include in the report.

Anyway we'll see what he comes back with.

 

[RBailey]

Surveyor came over today and pointed out the flat roof wasn't in line with the planning permissions, he's a bit skeptical on the ability to prove in court the wet wall is a direct result of the builders actions, he's going to ring the council and see why the planning has not been declined along with a few other points and write up a statement for me to take to a solicitor. He's thinking small claims court but I'm unsure how you'd assign value to future inability to repair that wall externally.

If you do eventually get an offer make sure you don't accept full and final settlement, you may have problems years to come, or even worse when it comes to sell.