Neighbors....

[alice]

I have an end terrace in a conservation area. I have the front (freehold) and the back has been hived off and is owned by the previous owner, who now rents it out. The back of my house abuts a tiny courtyard that the owner kept. I don't live in it full time and when I came back this year I noticed that someone had drilled a hole into the brick of my house and put in a very large eye bolt so that a clothes line could be strung across the courtyard and into a telephone pole that is in the back alley.

I'm not happy that people are drilling into the back of my house and hooking things up there, but before I make a fuss I want to be clear on my rights . In the States, the brick (back of house) facing the courtyard is my property and can't be altered in any way without my permission. Is it the same in the UK? I would think so.... and if it is, what is my recourse? I've talked to the renters and they swear they didn't set the eyebolt, so now I'm going to talk to the landlord. What is my next recourse if he doesn't remove the bolt and fix my brick? What is my recourse if he says it was there already? Can they still use it to secure their clothesline with? What if it pulls out and damages the brick further?

On one hand, he did put it in very securely and put in something to seal it, but on the other, he did it without permission and I really don't want anything drilled/painted/installed etc on the back of my house without me knowing about it, even if it is a blank, windowless wall.

alice

 

[MdB]

I'm very much not an expert in this but I think you are very much in the right and he is very much in the wrong. However, I would tread very very carefully and don't do anything in the heat of the moment. Relations with neighbours is something that can get poisoned very easily and often unnecessarily so. I would speak to the neighbour, point out the mistake and kindly ask him to remove the bolt and put the damage right - if this is what you want done. Don't put anything in writing as this could then be construde as a formal dispute which would then have to be declared whenever you come to sell your home.

 

[Flyfisher]

It seems quite clear that your property has been damaged and you are therefore entitled to seek redress, which typically would mean the costs associated with putting things right plus some reasonable additional costs for sorting it all out. And probably the same applies to the owner of the telephone pole. However, I suspect the biggest problem lies in your description of the issue, i.e. "someone" did this but you probably have little or no absolute proof who it was, even though you may have your suspicions.

Anyway, rushing to court is rarely the answer - indeed the courts usually take a dim view of plaintiffs who do not seek to settle disputes by negotiation before rushing to law.

I agree with MdB and would talk to the neighbours first explaining the potential for damage to your brickwork. If no-one owns up to having done the deed then I would probably remove the eye-bolt or perhaps just cut it off to avoid the need to fill the hole.

I would also take plenty of photographs showing the problem.

 

[Nemesis]

I'd also check insurance for legal disputes cover...

 

[alice]

I really don't have any intentions of going to court as this is the sort of thing, I think, that should be sorted out privately. I just want to be firm in my own mind that I'm not breaking any local custom that I might not be aware of before I say anything. I'm sure a blank wall that abuts a property line is still the property of the freeholder and can't be messed with or used by the people who (unfortunately for them) have to look at it.

My first instinct is to let this slide by, as I'm not sure who put it up and it doesn't seem to be causing any damage, but I'm afraid that if I don't say anything that other liberties will be taken (what's next? murals? flower pots? basketball hoops?) and if it does pull out and cause damage, then who's responsible for fixing the hole?

As for the pole that the other end of the clothesline is fixed to, I think that belongs to the a utility company. It's on a public street, not in the garden. I doubt if that end is legal, either.

alice

 

[Nemesis]

At times; sorting these things out privately doesn't work. By the time you have got to the stage of solicitor's letters, if your insurers have not been involved, all the costs will be yours.

Decide how far you want to go - if you ask and nothing is done, do you want to leave it there?

 

[DaveBrigg]

If the renters did not, as they say, set the eye bolt, then presumably they would have no recourse if you decided to remove it and fill the hole with a dab of lime. Being a good neighbour you will probably not want to do this while the line is laden with dripping garments. It's very rare in this country for complete strangers to sneak into courtyards late at night equipped with powertools and ironmongery, but maybe this is a first.
However, perhaps the discourtesy may be partly excused by your absence (only partly - they should have waited!). You will be the best one to judge whether an understanding can be reached whereby the bolt can stay on condition that nothing else is done without your consent. I have a relative who chopped down a neighbour's fence for no other reason than that it was attached to his posts, which seems a bit sad really.

(P.S. Note the different spelling of your adopted country. That Mr Webster has a lot to answer for :wink: )

 

[skier-hughes]

It surprises me they have a clothes line running onto a public right of way, this could cause untold problems, what if a kid came riding along on his bike and strangled himself on the line?

I'm with everyone else, talk to all those concerned and try to find out who did it.
If nobody owns up, put a note on the line saying what you are going to do and when, give adequate notice, which in your situation may be short.
Then on that day remove it from your wall.
Do your best to remove the bolt and line undamaged, plus leave it in the courtyard.
Ensure the other end is not a health and safety hazard with it being on public property.


This needs to be done, as no doubt, someone would trip over the line you've taken down and sue you, or the owner of said bolt would miraculously appear and sue you for damaging his property, as we live in such a mad world :roll:

Graham

 

[Nigel]

One other thing, to remove the bolt it appears you will need to access their land. If you serve notice then they may advise you not to trespass. Not sure what the law is here but you may want to consider whether it is better to ask permission before or apologise afterwards.

 

[Lime]

The rights and wrongs of this matter turn on who owns the wall.

If the wall is owned solely by alice at the point of the clothes line attachment then this is a trespass which has caused damage to the property.
You can take action in a civil court.

The usual procedure is to ask for the hook to be removed and any damage put right.
If the person directly responsible cannot be found then the owner of the property from which the line extends is responsible to take it down once informed about it.

 

[Moo]

I'm sure that I, too, would be a bit miffed if I discovered that someone had been drilling holes in my back wall. But I suspect that it would largely be because they didn't ask first.
Do you think that there's a real danger that the weight of the washing might pull the hook out of the brickwork? If there is, then that would be a good reason for asking for the hook to be removed. If not, you could just ask them not to screw anything else into your wall.
On the other hand, why not find out what the utility company and local authority think about having the line fixed to their pole and crossing the public highway - there's always a chance that one or both of them will make the neighbour take the line down anyway.
And one thing to bear in mind is that it could have been a totally innocent mistake, and the neighbours would be really mortified to learn that they'd done something to upset you.

 

[Craig]

I think that the situation may not be so clear as set out above. If the wall is on a boundary between your demise and your neighbours, it probably constitues a party wall or a party garden wall.

If this is the case, they may be entitled to do things to it in some circumstances. However, there are some clear limits and some very strict processes to go through.

I would recommend reading this first:

http://www.communities.gov.uk/publications/planningandbuilding/partywall

I think there are also legals rights to access parts of your property over other peoples land but I cant remember what they are...

 

[Me!]

I suggest the first thing is to check the deeds to be sure who owns the wall.
I previously lived in a semi-detached where the party wall didn't belong to the owners of either house. It belonged for ever to the descendants of the original two brothers who built the houses!
Also, are you absolutely sure the bolt wasn't there before you bought the house? If the line wasn't attached at the time, would you have noticed it?
Personally, I'd just live and let live on something like this. Obviously they should have asked first, but does it really matter?

 

[skier-hughes]

Obviously they should have asked first, but does it really matter?

This is where we are at a disadvantage not being able to see the item and wall in question, because if it was my house a lot of the bricks on some walls are "not at their best" and something drilled into one could cause terrible damage and I'd be livid.

 

[Lime]

Obviously they should have asked first, but does it really matter?

It would to me for a variety of reasons.
My immediate concern would be damage done already, then the likelyhood of damage being caused by weight on the washing line....bricks can be quite weak if pulled sideways.

Perhaps much more important is the message you send out by not doing anything.
It could be a lean-to shed or workshop next or a basketball hoop or football practice goal.
All the above could cause you a lot of noise and nuisance apart from any further damage to the wall.

 

[Moo]

It could be a lean-to shed or workshop next or a basketball hoop or football practice goal.
All the above could cause you a lot of noise and nuisance apart from any further damage to the wall.

Or even worse - a raised bed. Think of the damp issues that could create!

 

[alice]

Flyfisher made a good point about taking pictures and when he posted that I remembered I had some pictures on my computer that were taken when we were considering buying the house. Well... thanks to the miracle of digital photography I was able to enlarge the picture and sure enough, the eye bolt was there when we bought the house; there was just no line on it so I didn't notice it. At that time there were no renters so no one was using it.

It seems to have been put in very securely, and since it was probably put in when the house was one large house, it's probably been there for years and has done no damage. So what I've decided to do is mention it to the landlord and the renters and allow them to use it for the clothesline, but make very sure they understand that they don't have permission to do any other alterations. No basketball hoops, no satellite dishes, etc.

I've already had a round with my step-father about fixing things to the side of the house (he wanted to put in a garden hose holder for me). It just makes me cringe, because I think that every time you "break the skin" of a house by boring holes into it, you're letting yourself open for leaks and pests.

I didn't make myself clear about the other end of the line. It goes across the courtyard and is fixed to a utility pole that is just on the other side of the courtyard wall and is in the alley. The line itself does not cross the alley or roadway, so, although it might be good sport to see the local hooligans race down the alley on their bikes and get decapitated, it's not going to happen that way.

But you've raised some very good issues and that's why I posted. I was assuming I own the wall. I assumed it's that wall to the back of my house, not a party wall, but now I better check on that. You've also raised the issue of who is responsible for repairing the hole if it does suddenly give out, and I want to make sure that before I talk to the landlord I know what to say in regards to that. I don't want to give permission to keep using it if all the responsibility for damages then comes back to me. It's not my laundry that needs drying!

alice

 

[Penners]

Perhaps much more important is the message you send out by not doing anything.
It could be a lean-to shed or workshop next or a basketball hoop or football practice goal.

I quite agree with that. Obviously you want to try and handle this in a non-confrontational way, but ultimately the worst decision would be to do nothing, for the reasons that Lime has given.