Need a flat floor

[Hazel7000]

Hello. Hoping someone can come up with a solution. We've just moved into partner's family farm cottage which is dry as a bone - but the main room floors are like a bumpy field. Under the carpet are flagstones laid directly on earth. Now the issue is I have a tendon problem in my foot and can only walk indoors on flat floors. So have had use a walking aid since moving in. We don't want to lose the breathability of the floor, as the house is working so well - no damp at all. On the other hand I want the floor levelled so I can move about easily. Any suggestions as to the best option gratefully received. We aren't too worried about having a flag floor, nice as they are. So far we've thought of:

1) Limecrete (not really an option - foundations aren't deep enough).
2) Relaying the flags on a bed of sand and then putting a thick wool underlay and carpet on top (still might not be firm/level enough).
3) Fitting a suspended timber floor over the flags.
4) Just sticking leveller down - even if the damp gets pushed up the walls, they are lime plastered or bare stone.

 

[MikeG]

Not number 4, please. That's a good way to ruin an old stone floor.

I would pick up and relay on sand. It may not be necessary to move many stones, just those that are sticking up.

 

[Flyfisher]

I would go for something non-destructive, which rules out option 1 and 4.

A suspended floor would would certainly provide a level floor and be non-destructive, but would also change the character of the room. It may also create a significant 'step' into the room, which may or may not be a new issue.

That leaves the relaying option - Non-destructive and preserves the character of the floor. Also probably the easiest and cheapest solution.

 

[88v8]

Hello and welcome.
How annoying to have the dodgy foot problem, must be a constant worry as there are few areas outdoors that are truly flat.

I would also avoid the destructive options. And one should think of future owners - you may not be bothered about a flag floor, but to some people they are a holy grail.

How are you on flag or stone floors? When you visit National Trust properties with stone floors for instance, are you comfortable?

The most guaranteed and least disruptive option is probably a suspended floor. It need not be deep. Can be laid on treated 2x2"s. Don't fasten them down. Just screw the boards to the 2x2s with slot-head brass screws, and let it float. I might even use 2x1" to minimise the height.
Leave an air gap of about ¼” around the perimeter, and don't seal it off with skirting. That will leave a bit of airflow, and minimise the possibility of damp accumulating underneath. I don't doubt what you say about it being dry, but there's dry and there's dry. I bet if you put a plastic sheet on the floor and left it a day you might find it's not as dry as you think.

That will leave a step of 2-3" into the room. Speaking as someone who moved from a 'conventional' house where the floors were flat, to one where every room is at a different level, one gets accustomed.
If the doors are old, try to avoid hacking the bottoms. If that's unavoidable, take the doors off and put them somewhere they'll be unharmed for a few years, and make new/repro doors. What you are doing is temporary in the history of the house and should not be allowed to damage it in any permanent manner.

Ivor

 

[Hazel7000]

Thanks so much for the suggestions which helps clarify the thinking a bit. It's a long term injury which no-one seems able to fix. I actually can't walk outdoors without a restrictive walking aid, for short periods, but had been managing indoors with medical crocs on in our previous house which had carpeted level wood floors throughout. Hence being a bit housebound, walking around the house without being in agony is quite important.

It is a nice old period farmhouse (half a farmhouse - it was divided into two semi's many years ago) that has been rather wrecked in the 1950s and 60s by previous generation - so there aren't many period features left - apart from the floors and some stone walls we exposed (or rather the plaster fell off). Doors are sliding monstrosities. There is a new part (extension) that has flat floors and the plan is to semi move into there while levelling the lounge floor. Seriously there's 2 or 3 inches difference in height in places! So it really is like a bumpy field.

88v8 - yes that's a good point it probably isn't dry if something was put over it. The current felt underlay and carpet aren't damp - but they did get mildew and rot under the sofa. So I suppose it's evaporating. It certainly doesn't smell damp anywhere and I'm quite sensitive to things like that. So does that mean there'd be a risk of creating damp between a suspended floor and the flags? We couldn't quite work out how to get a suspended floor level if the flags were not level. The floor is already slightly lower than the adjoining kitchen floor with a slight step up. 1" would level it probably. 2" would just make the step go the other way. A step is less of an issue than a floor surface.

So it looks like - creating a suspended wood floor, or relaying and levelling the floor flags (but would then need underlay and carpet again probably for additional "flatness"/cushioning).

 

[88v8]

Urrgh how ghastly for you.

Level? Lay out the 2x2" or 2x1" at 15" centres and where they don't touch the flags, fasten enough of these beneath with duck tape
http://www.screwfix.com/p/broadfix-assorted-plastic-shims-medium-x-x-200-pcs/80408 (or equivalent from local builder's merchant). Not very Period but heyho. If the gaps are bigger use hardboard slips as well. Try to level up the overall by eye with some winding strips.
It doesn't have to be perfectly flat or level. When you screw the boards to the 2x2" it will sort of flatten itself. I wouldn't bother with a spirit level.
Don't take the 2x2" up against the wall, and in addition to your packers, sit it on a strip of dpm .

Sliding doors... so it has indeed been well got at. So would be nice to retain the flag floor. You haven't said how you are on a well-laid flag floor? OK? Not very keen?

The felt underlay has saved its bacon; modern underlay traps the damp, felt allows it to evaporate, so whoever did that - good call. If you relay the flag you could do that again. Felt underlay https://www.carpet-underlay-shop.co.uk/collections/carpet-underlay/wool-felt-carpet-underlay?gclid=CKKSkc6_0LACFVMetAodYTJrXQ , wool carpet, no synthetics. Preferably not fitted carpet, big Turkey rug sort of thing with a bare perimeter if that would be OK for you. Shame about the sofa, perhaps that corner is damper.

Back to the suspended floor.... Yes, a suspended floor would trap the damp. A perimeter air gap and treated 2x2" will delay or defer the onset of problems, but I wouldn't spend a lot of money on the flooring, no antique oak, It's a bit of an experiment as regards durability. Treat the underside of the boards with Cuprinol 5-Star as you lay them to deter rot. It pongs, but don't treat them all in advance to avoid bringing the pongs indoors, or they'll swell up. Just apply to each board before it's laid.

Normally one might use tg board. Errrrm. The small air gaps between butt boards would give a little more ventilation..... but if it's very damp they'll swell and there won't be any gaps, so ummm.
Try putting a clear plastic sheet down on the flags for 24 hours. A 2ft square perhaps. See how much damp is trapped beneath. Or a few squares in different areas. Fact-finding mission.
Forward planning. Like I tend not to :{

Ivor

 

[Hazel7000]

Thanks - that's really helpful Sorry if this sounds like a stupid question, but if you put the 2 x 2 down not touching the flags, what is it attached to? Unfortunately just the nature of flags not being particularly level is an issue. So relaying them would help a bit but not solve the problem. Yup the house is a mess. Some nice stone walls but the rest is all 1950s and 60s and an awful lot of plywood. Nice fibreboard ceiling with lats and a big hole in it. Also 1950s or 60s. Normally I love stone flags so it's a shame I have this problem now. Adjoining room (kitchen) has a concrete floor and that doesn't seem to have any damp in it. How about wool underlay? Would that be ok instead of felt? One thing we thought might work is if we just levelled the flags and had a wool underlay which is 1cm thick and quite firm and then unfitted carpet (ie gaps at the edges). Just thought laying floorboards might be easier.

 

[atticman]

"Just thought laying floorboards might be easier." :shock:

If you stay on here long enough, you'll learn that that is not the PPUK way!!

 

[88v8]

Not touching... sorry, I meant if it's not touching you need to put packers underneath so it does touch.
The 2X2 (or 1x2") don't need to sit down perfectly, so long as they're in contact say every 3ft or so, and especially at the ends.
The floor may be a bit springy but that doesn't matter, it will be flat.

Don't attach the 2x2 to the flags Just sit it on top. The weight of the floor and furniture will keep it in place.

Wool... dunno.
I do know that felt compacts over time, and if there are very uneven flags beneath it will print-through and you will end up with a lumpy carpet. So it depends how flat the flags are or can be.
On the one hand 3/8" felt is not that thick if you're trying to level the surface, on the other hand it's a hell of a bump around the perimeter of a carpet, even if you skive down the edges.
Felt is a nice breathable addition to a flat floor, not really a solution in itself.

Ivor

 

[MatthewC]

Adjoining room (kitchen) has a concrete floor and that doesn't seem to have any damp in it.

I'll bet that the concrete floor is pretty cold and, moreover, any trapped moisture will never be able to evaporate but rather it goes to the walls and appears there as "rising damp"!