NASA style insulation material

[Anonymous]

My B-I-L is visting from France and he was telling me about some really good insulation material they use over there which is some off-shoot of the space programme. It sounds like some kind silver foil covered bubble wrap that you staple between the rafters. It's v thin but has U values similar to thick blanket and sounds rather nifty.
Does nayone know what it's called?

 

[Anonymous]

Triaso Super 9 ?

I've been advised to use it by the building regs man,..

says its better than Celotex, which I was originally what the architect specified.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks - do you know who makes it - I googled Triaso and got plant hire company in Mexico! Triaso Super 9 came up with nothing

 

[Anonymous]

The name was slightly wrong, try this link



http://www.tri-isosuper9.co.uk

 

[Anonymous]

got it..

http://www.tri-isosuper9.co.uk/home.htm

google tip for the day..
I found that because when google didn't get what I wanted I looked at the

"did you mean 'this'?" at the top of the page...

Google had got it right !

 

[Anonymous]

No, tri-isosuper9 is something different. The French stuff that I've seen is like this -



Airtec Double

 

[Anonymous]

I didn't think that airtec stuff was any good ?

equivalent to 55mm of polystyrene ?

although I do admit its very thin.. its just foiled bubble wrap int it ?

 

[Anonymous]

I never said if it was any good or not, just that it's what I've seen used in France. However, in France I've seen it used up against the underside of the rafters and then with a good layer of fibreglass underneath that and then plasterboard suspended below that in the roof of a barn conversion type building. I was puzzled about the comparison with polystyrene too, does anybody know how that equates to rockwool or glassfibre?

 

[Anonymous]

Tri Iso Super 9


http://www.tri-isosuper9.co.uk/home.htm

 

[Anonymous]

Surprised a 'building regs man' would advise using it. All the ones in my area have recently said we can't use it because recent tests show it ain't any good.

The manufacturer reckons it's the equivilant of 200mm of mineral wool. The problem is that the material doesn't have a known thermal conductivity (k Value) and that makes it impossible to calculate a U-Value.

Like it or not, U-Values are the standard used in all regulations so if you can't calc it you can't use it.

For info, Celotex has a K of 0.023 W/mK and mineral wool has a K of about 0.040. That means 50mm of celotex is about the same as 100mm of mineral wool.

 

[Anonymous]

Multifoils are used where it is really important to stop heat passing through and you dont want to use up a lot of space of weight. Hence NASA and also cryogenic applications such as storing liquid nitrogen. The building industry is so conservative.

 

[Anonymous]

But those applications don't rely on it alone Biff - it is part of a system that also includes a very large amount of conductive insulation as well.

Silver coated systems work by reducing the rate that heat is radiated from a surface. The rate of radiation in space is massive due the the black body of space. That is why it gets very cold and frosty on a clear night.

But emissivity relies on a direct visible path to the source. A silver coating in a roof space is not going to 'see' the black body of space, it just sees the underside of the roof tile. Compare this with a space craft where almost every surface sees the space and the benefit of silver foil in space becomes obvious.

 

[Anonymous]

http://www.periodproperty.co.uk/cgi-bin/discussing/forum2.pl?read=40400

This link might help in discussions?

MJ

 

[Anonymous]

Blimey...I started reading that thread then lost the will to live.
In summary is it any good?

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Nigel,

I used it and it seems to be doing the business.

The room seems to hold heat well and looking at the roof when we have had the frost the roof remained frosted with no hot spots.

The profile is great and it was dead easy to install.

I got approval for it No Problem and while the builder was a skeptic to begin with, he changed his tune when he had installed it.

I saw it being used on Grand Designs some time ago and they seemed to think it worked and was good enough for them.

MJ

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks MJ, can you recall where you got it from?

 

[Anonymous]

Any decent builders merchant. I got it from one in Banbury. Worth phoning around to check out prices.

There is something similar online sold by Screwfix. Not sure if it is as effective? Unbranded.

It could be as good but a lot cheaper? Not sure how you would prove it so I took the safe route and bought the branded Tri Iso.

MJ

 

[Anonymous]

Just to avoid any misunderstanding, I am very much in favour of alternative methods and I do see this material as having great potential. But, in order to make a proper judgement we need information in a form that can be properly compared.

I have searched this material several times in the past and I do find it curious that there is a distinct lack of technical information and comparisons. If the material stands up, and there is technical proof that ir does, I wonder why the manufacturers are not sharing it with us?

I understand the basics of thermal dynamics and have a sense of the value of low emissivity coatings, but what I don't know is how to evaluate this compared to the usual low-conductivity materials. I'd like a bit more than 'seems to work ok' and ' they're all using it in France' before I make a judgement.

 

[Anonymous]

One of the differences between the various brands of multifoil is the number of reflective surfaces. I think Tri Iso Super 9 has six layers of foil. Some of the cheaper ones may only have two. I read somewhere that the stuff they use to keep liquid nitrogen cosy has 50 layers of foil separated by thin paper.

 

[Anonymous]

This reflecting insulation I know since years. It can stop thermal losses by IR-radiation, which causes 99% of all thermal losses. You can compare it with fire stop glass panes, which can not be penetrated by the IR-wave range belonging to 'normal' temperatures > 2,7 mikron. The same effect does the reflection of the aluminated layers and they have a lousy emmission value, what is good in technical sense.

Besides the U-value is a really big hoax, I wrote to this topic in the forum some threads. Look to the figure, you can see what the U-value effects - just nothing.

In spite of all the preferences of this IR-reflecting material, I would never use it as normal thermal insulation. Why?

1st - Don't trust the NASA-prop! It is stuff for stupids.
2nd - Whats about all the water which must come in a rooms surface? How will it come through the 'waterproof' alu layer?

That stuff may be good for redwine filled frenchman, not for clever UKs. There is enough misty fog around the Thames, stop it in your house!



Something to the U-Value-Hoax